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  #1  
Old 05-17-2008, 09:42 PM
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In this test I wanted to see if the Corbon DPX 110 grain fired into damp (not soaked paper) without the hydroulics would open and it did not.
Next I soaked the paper and shoot the 125 grain +P Rem jacketed hollow point, the 158 grain LSWCHP +P, and the 110 Grain Corbon DPX bullet.
The results are below;
The bullets left to right are, 1&2 Corbon DPX , 3- 158 Grain LSWCHP +P, 4-Corbon DPX , 4- 125 Grain JHP Rem +P
The depth of penetration is on the paper with the bullet

The Corbon DPX shot into the damp paper tumbled and were recovered sideways. The Corbon DPX shot into the water soaked paper expanded and was recoverd backwards.
The 125 graain JHP +P and was recovered sideways..
The 158 grain LSWCHP was recoverd realatively point on..
Chrono'ed speeds were as follows
158 grain LSWCHP +P 794.6 FPS
125 grain Rem JHP +P 810.2 FPS
110 grain Corbon DPX +P 810.4 FPS
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2008, 11:54 PM
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I don't think I want any of them coming at me. I'd much rather be on the trigger end of that deal. I'm using CCI 125 grain Gold Dots in mine for carry use. Hopefully they will stay in the gun.
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2008, 01:54 PM
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Cool test! A 2-inch .38 special needs all the help it can get! That said, you won't convince me to play bullet catcher!
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2008, 05:51 PM
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There are 2 reasons I carry LSWCHP +P in my snubby. You just showed one.

The other is I can cast & load identical loads for practice at 1/10 the cost of the OEM I carry.
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2008, 05:36 AM
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Your results pretty much duplicate my own wet-paper test results. I also found the 158 gr. lswchp penetrated as much as twice as far as the lighter bullets.
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2008, 08:49 AM
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It was the chronograph results I found most interesting, the 110 and 125s were the same velocity and both were only insignificantly faster (16 fps) than the 158 grain. Energy figures run in the .380 ACP range, only 160-220 ft.lb. It's a bit surprising that the 158 didn't show more penetration.
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2008, 08:56 AM
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The pure lead 158 grain LSWCHP is very soft and its deformation is the limiting factor in its ability to penetrate.
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  #8  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwp475 View Post
The pure lead 158 grain LSWCHP is very soft and its deformation is the limiting factor in its ability to penetrate.
Yes, but look at the tests above: The LSWCHP still outpenetrated all of the other "high performance" loads... even with its lovely mushroom.
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  #9  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Ironsights View Post
Yes, but look at the tests above: The LSWCHP still outpenetrated all of the other "high performance" loads... even with its lovely mushroom.

Yes it did in the wet paper test, but the first test that I did was hard barrier penetration test and the 158 grain LSWCHP +P only penetrated 1/2 as far as the 2 lighter bullets.
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  #10  
Old 06-02-2008, 11:29 AM
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Hard Barrier Penetration from a SD round is asking for trouble in a lot of ways.

IMO if you are shooting a .38 of at someone behind "hard cover" - regardless of load - you have a serious problem, Legal, Ethical and Tactical. It's just not necessary or prudent in a Self Defense scenerio. Such shooting is not likely to pass the Reasonable Defense test.
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2008, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Ironsights View Post
Hard Barrier Penetration from a SD round is asking for trouble in a lot of ways.

IMO if you are shooting a .38 of at someone behind "hard cover" - regardless of load - you have a serious problem, Legal, Ethical and Tactical. It's just not necessary or prudent in a Self Defense scenerio. Such shooting is not likely to pass the Reasonable Defense test.

Some how I figured that just because they were bad guys didn't mean that they were stupid. Almost any one his going to try thier very best to avoid getting shot and this usually means taking cover. How about drive by shootings? I consider a car door or car body to be a "hard barrier". How about some one that breaks into your home and you confront them and shots are fired, you don't think that the "bad guy would take cover behind a wall or chair, or whatever he could find? I think they would.
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2008, 04:37 PM
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I agree that you have a point there, jwp475. My own limited tests indicate that penetration in different mediums require different loads. In soft materials the heavy bullets seem to do best, that is if "most" is best. In steel or glass the higher velocity rounds are most likely to penetrate.
A bit off topic for handguns, but as an example, I once did a side by side test of a 45/70 and a .223. I first fired at a standing dead pine tree about 12" in diameter. The 385 grain hard cast bullets doing about 1300 fps punched right through the hard dry wood and raised a dust cloud from the hillside behind, while the 55 grain soft point from the .223 only penetrated about 6-7 inches as best I could measure by poking a wire into the hole. I then turned to an old brake drum and the situation reversed. The .223 punched holes as clean as if milled in a machine shop while the 45/70s just made a slight dent and sent the drum rolling away. When firing edgewise at the thick cast steel rim of the drum the .223 punched a clean hole in the first side and broke out a ragged hole in the second side while the 45/70 just left a grey mark, not even a dent on the first side.
However, in your test there was very little difference in velocity between the 110 and 158 grains, so I don't know how to account for the difference in penetration. With the velocities being about the same, the heavier bullet would have about 30% more energy.
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  #13  
Old 06-04-2008, 05:29 PM
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The LSWCHP is a very soft lead bullet and the deformation is the limiting factor in the hard barrier test IMHO. The 158 LSWCHP is one of the very few bullets that I have tested in various calibers that dramaticaly deforms in hard plyboard.
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  #14  
Old 06-04-2008, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwp475 View Post
Some how I figured that just because they were bad guys didn't mean that they were stupid. Almost any one his going to try thier very best to avoid getting shot and this usually means taking cover. How about drive by shootings? I consider a car door or car body to be a "hard barrier". How about some one that breaks into your home and you confront them and shots are fired, you don't think that the "bad guy would take cover behind a wall or chair, or whatever he could find? I think they would.
There's a reason they are called "drive-bys" and not "stop & shoots". You, as a civillian, do NOT have the right or authority to shoot at a fleeing vehicle - no matter how many rounds they sprayed at the neighborhood - not that ANY handgun short of a .44 would really matter anyway.

As a civillian, if you continue to engage a target who has gone behind hard cover, you are opening yourself up to Liabilities beyond your wildest imagination... If the BG is behind cover, then you are, more likely than not, no longer in immediate danger and your legal options diminish precipitously.

I think you will find that the percentage of "BG behind hard cover" justified Self Defense Shootings to be vanishingly small.
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2008, 06:19 PM
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I beg to differ, If I am shot at at a red light I will return fire and I am justified. If I am in a 7-11 and an armed suspect is engaged and he takes cover behind anything I am justified to fire, it is not over because he ducks. If an intruder in my home takes cover I am still justified. The confrontation isn't over just because an adversary take cover.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:56 AM
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Old Ironsights, I must point out, as I have many times to many people - police ARE "civilians".

That term applies to non-military personnel.

However, I carry the Buffalo Bore 158 grain SWCHP +P in my S&W M337.
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2008, 08:11 AM
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[quote=Nathaniel;348569]Old Ironsights, I must point out, as I have many times to many people - police ARE "civilians".

Even though they are not always "civil".
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2008, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jwp475 View Post
I beg to differ, If I am shot at at a red light I will return fire and I am justified. If I am in a 7-11 and an armed suspect is engaged and he takes cover behind anything I am justified to fire, it is not over because he ducks. If an intruder in my home takes cover I am still justified. The confrontation isn't over just because an adversary take cover.
You are kinda scary because you sound trigger happy and looking for a reason to shoot. There is a time to escalate and a time to deescalate. You seem to not be clear on or understand this.
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  #19  
Old 06-05-2008, 01:58 PM
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You are kinda scary because you sound trigger happy and looking for a reason to shoot. There is a time to escalate and a time to deescalate. You seem to not be clear on or understand this.

You're a little scary with your logic an amred bad guy that takes cover is still a threat. He is still armed and he will still shoot you. I am not the least bit looking for a reason to shoot, once an individual is in that type of situation thier life will be turned upside down. I simply intend to survive

Last edited by jwp475; 06-05-2008 at 02:28 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2008, 02:21 PM
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You guys keep it civil.
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