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  #41  
Old 07-18-2008, 04:16 PM
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I think i'll have to tell me and tinydeershooters pappy that the .38 is not a good idea.
  #42  
Old 07-18-2008, 09:06 PM
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Unless the .38 is considered legal in your state of residence for deer hunting it is a mote point because its "ILLEGAL". I can't believe so much space has been used promoting a possible illegal activity.

Concerning killing power the local butcher kills his animals with a 22 LR rifle, the previous one use the same in a pistol and the one previous to that used a 38 Special revolver. No animals survived the encounters although I will grant the shot placement was several inches from the skull. By the way he butchers everything--sheep, pigs, cattle and buffalo.
  #43  
Old 07-19-2008, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailstone View Post
Unless the .38 is considered legal in your state of residence for deer hunting it is a mote point because its "ILLEGAL". . .
I agree 100 % that folks should know the game laws in their states or the states they might hunt in. The .38 special handgun is a legal firearm for taking deer in Georgia, Alabama, Florida and Texas. I don't know where else it might be. Of course I already knew it was in Georgia. I just looked up Alabama, Florida and Texas this morning.
  #44  
Old 07-19-2008, 07:15 AM
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Yup, any centerfire in Texas, although there's plenty that I wouldn't support, especially in handguns.

I did have a friend try a 180gr. hollowpoint in a .44 mag rifle on a really big pig. Fortunately for him, it ran off and died somewhere else. It was sorta my fault as I strongly recommended the .44 mag rifle - but failed to supervise the ammo selection.

He already had 16 in the trap that morning and so the one big one running off actually saved him quite a bit of work. They had been tearing up his lawn....
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  #45  
Old 07-19-2008, 08:12 AM
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Just for information, not recommendation.

Before there was a .357mag., S&W made some heavy framed .38 Special; back then, guns had names rather than numbers, like the Heavy Duty or Outdooesman (and Colt made some big New Services in .38specail as well). These are the guns that experimenters used with warmed-up reloads that lead to the introduction of the .357mag.

(usually called 38/44's...38's built on a .44 frame...but there was a way-way old 38/44BP round that is a whole 'nuther critter.)

Some of the old loading data from Lyman at that time shows loads hotter than today's manual .357 data. have run accross a couple of 38/44's that had been reamed out to .357 sometime in the distant past (ruined the collectors value, but they evidently held up to the strain).

So...under very special circumstances, where legal, would consider it...but I'd need an old S&W Heavy Duty or Outdoorsman and some very careful reloading.
  #46  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailstone View Post
Unless the .38 is considered legal in your state of residence for deer hunting it is a mote point because its "ILLEGAL". I can't believe so much space has been used promoting a possible illegal activity.

Concerning killing power the local butcher kills his animals with a 22 LR rifle, the previous one use the same in a pistol and the one previous to that used a 38 Special revolver. No animals survived the encounters although I will grant the shot placement was several inches from the skull. By the way he butchers everything--sheep, pigs, cattle and buffalo.
This represents the perfect placement that can be ensured holding the muzzle a couple of inches from the intended target. The "perfect shot". That hasn't been my experinece in the field, where you often cannot pick and choose your shots. I don't think anyone here doesn't agree that the .38 special can kill deer. Just because it can doesn't make it a good idea.......
  #47  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitworth View Post
That hasn't been my experinece in the field, where you often cannot pick and choose your shots. ...
Why on earth can you not "pick and choose" your shots? In all my days in the field I have never been forced to shoot against my will.
  #48  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:59 AM
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I should have said that the perfect shot doesn't necessarily present itself -- which is often the case. If I had a dime for all of the commentary on the internet starting with "a .22 LR behind the ear........" I would be a wealthy man. What if only a Texas heart shot presents itself on the trophy buck of the century? With .38 special in hand, you should pass on it. With my .475 Linebaugh in hand, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to send a 420 grain WFN up its backside..........

Citing slaughter house practices doesn't validate the effectiveness of a cartridge........JMHO.
  #49  
Old 07-19-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitworth View Post
. What if only a Texas heart shot presents itself on the trophy buck of the century? .
I would pass, no matter what firearm I happened to have in hand. Never wanted to kill a deer that bad.
  #50  
Old 07-19-2008, 10:13 AM
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The point is that with something bigger and loaded with the right bullet, the Texas heart shot is a very viable option.
  #51  
Old 07-19-2008, 10:26 AM
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If a deer is quartered to me, 90* to me or quartered away, do you think I am going to pass on any of the shots? Get real!
It gets thick around here too and if a deer is walking to an opening, I shoot it as it walks through.
If you only take those "perfect shots" you will not eat much venison!
I have killed many, many deer on a dead run across open fields out to 100 yd's with muzzle loaders. Give me a scoped rifle and the same deer is dead out beyond 200 yd's. Why do I shoot running deer? Because I can, plain and simple! I have also killed many deer to just over 100 yd's off hand with a revolver, also because I can!
I have never seen any animal of any kind standing on a rail car or hung from a wire on a shooting gallery. Every single one is a different angle, distance, a different place and position from the shooter. Many times I could not turn and had to shoot them with one hand.
I learned how to shoot. I also pick spots were a boolit or an arrow can get through.
KenK, I suppose if the deer reached the only opening you could shoot in, you would pass the shot if the deer was turned 10* off of "Perfect!"
How do you hunt and shoot at birds and small game?
  #52  
Old 07-19-2008, 12:13 PM
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Well now we know why there are all those wasted deer, because too many hunters think they have to take a crack at ever deer they catch a glimpse of.
I've taken deer with the .22 LR, .22 WMR, .223, .243, .250 savage, 6.5x55, .280, .30 carbine, 30/30, 30/06, 45/70, .45 Colt revolver, .50, .54 and .65 roundballs and I really never noticed any difference in results among them all. No deer dropped in its tracks unless a brain or spine shot or sometimes a direct frontal chest shot and no deer ever traveled more than 50 yards from where shot, regardless of what it was shot with. The only deer I ever lost was with a 45/70. I foolishly tried a head shot, heard the bullet hit and the doe staggered around a bit, shaking her head, then began to walk away. Knowing she was already hit I decided to try an Elmer Keith style, Texas heart shot, at which she just humped up and walked faster. All I ever found was a tuft of white hair from her rump with not a drop of blood. This was in my back yard so I was able to spend a couple of days combing the scrub oak and even my dogs never found her.I don't in any way blame the rifle nor the 385 gr. gas check bullet. I used poor judgement in trying for a head shot. If I had taken the usual chest shot I'm sure I'd have gotten her with that first shot and no need for the Texas heart shot follow up.
But with that experience I relearned what I already knew, if you're not certain, don't shoot. If one abides by that one simple rule they can hunt successfully and humanely with any firearm they choose. If they feel they have to take a crack at every deer they see they will wound and loose game regardless of how powerful their super magnum may be or how fast it can shuck lead.

Last edited by CoyoteJoe; 07-19-2008 at 12:18 PM.
  #53  
Old 07-19-2008, 04:10 PM
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Maybe not like everyone, but I certainly do pass on my offered shots than i take. I've no problem walking out of the deer woods at the end of the day with no deer, if feel better than coming out with one shot to snot or one hit and lost.....have to be certain that my one shot will drop the deer on the spot or I just won't shoot.

Many won't understand that...and will have even more trouble understanding the following. HAve been times when I decided not to shoot becasue it was just too easy....feel i just didn't "earn it", so I pass.
  #54  
Old 07-19-2008, 06:08 PM
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I shot a young 8 point with a 38 spl. loaded with a 148 gr wadcutter cast out of wheel weights and 5 grs of unique.About 25 yrds or so,in one side out the other.Poked a hole in both lungs,cut the top of his heart and broke a rib going in.He went about 30 yards and fell over.I did it mostly because someone told me it wasn't enough gun.I had some 357's with me.I intended to load them in my dads colt trooper but the deer was busy working over a scrape when I was walking to my stand in a creek bottom.I left camp about 1:30 in the afternoon and was back with the deer before the nay sayer left to go get in his stand.He shot handguns poorly and thought most everone else did too I guess.He was 30 some years older than me back then,I hadn't been out of the Marine Corps long and I could shoot much better than I can now.He never had much too say about pistol shooting after that.
  #55  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:17 PM
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[QUOTE=CoyoteJoe;357297]Well now we know why there are all those wasted deer, because too many hunters think they have to take a crack at ever deer they catch a glimpse of.
I've taken deer with the .22 LR, .22 WMR, .223, .243, .250 savage, 6.5x55, .280, .30 carbine, 30/30, 30/06, 45/70, .45 Colt revolver, .50, .54 and .65 roundballs.

30 Carbine?

http://realdealhuntingchat.invisionz...=0&#entry32092

To small!!
The mule deer in Idaho couldn't pick their teeth with that round, either.
No tree stands here, most areas do not have trees; and if they did-muley's are too smart to use the same trail every day.
  #56  
Old 07-20-2008, 12:49 AM
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Wink If it Please the Gentlemen of the Forum:

If it Please the Gentlemen of the Forum:

I have seen the light!

Never more will I consider the use of "air bag bullets" even against small game under perfect conditions! In the future only the trigger of true big bores will be gently caressed by my trigger finger! Hence forth only 730 grain hard cast heat treated lead will slam into the "boiler room" of my unsuspecting prey. Forevermore, will I look upon any so low as to use mouse-guns guns under .60 caliber and bullets under 500 grains, as optimistic neanderthals. Yes, I am now among the enlightened!

As the great philosopher, Harry Calahan, once said: "A mans' got to know to know his limitations."

--------------------------------------------------------------------

All hilarity aside, there appears to be no disagreement on the need for proper bullet placement and adequate penetration. Each of us brings his own experiences to mind when deciding what gun/cartridge combination will be effective under the circumstance.

Differing opinions and a lot of good information, that is what keeps each of us logging in to this forum - thanks to that Beartooth Bullet guy!
  #57  
Old 07-20-2008, 03:37 AM
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I see how it is!
I don't take bad shots or any I am unsure of and also pass up many deer. However I hunted a lot of drives where deer do not stand and look at you. I have the utmost confidence in hitting moving deer in the open but do not shoot at running deer in the woods and never shoot if there is any obstuction or doubt of a perfect hit. But I can shoot! Every shot at a running deer has been in the shoulder or tight behind it and I find it easier to hit them then at a standing deer off hand at 200 yd's with a scoped rifle and will never try it without a rest. If anyone ever shot at moving targets they would understand that when swinging smoothly all wiggle of the gun is gone.
Standing deer to 100 yd's is duck soup, beyond that a rest has to be used.
I shoot my revolvers to 500 meters (Thats 547 yd's for those that don't know.) But 100 is my revolver hunting limit and I prefer 20 yd's.
All said and done, someone will run me down and then list the most ridiculous calibers they used on deer, most of which should be only used on rabbit size game. Then to even try a head shot with ANY gun---
Who has more hunting ethics here? "Hey honey, I'm going deer hunting, I have my .22 and a .25 auto for backup!"
I see the funny gun lists but no list of lost deer!
I shot this can twice, once at 200 yd's from a rest (hole is in the side) and once at 100 yd's off hand. BFR .475 Linebaugh, 420 gr WFN at 1330 fps.
Now show me what you do with a handgun at 25 yd's!
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  #58  
Old 07-20-2008, 05:06 AM
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I Know,I Know........

........lets have a series of contests here.

The outcomes will be e-mailed in and the participants will be officially sworn in(on a Sierra loading manual)to have to tell the truth.

The contests will be as follows -->
1. Who can kill a deer with the,
a.smallest bullet possible
b.lighest bullet possible
c.slowest bullet possible

2. Who can kill a deer at the furtherset distance possible.

3.Who can kill a deer with a caliber over .600 Nitro Express.

4.Who can do the absolute MOST damage possible to the game animal with the least number of shots.

5. Who can kill a deer with a load of buckshot at 100yds.

6. Who can kill a deer with a .25 Raven or Davis derringer.

7. Who can shoot a deer and have him travel farther and live longer than anyone else.

8. Who here is the richest yet chooses NOT to use the proper tool(weapon) for the proper job(humainly killing game animalss).

9. Who here is the poorest yet will not hunt until they have accquired the proper weapon for the proper game animal.

10. Who here will not take a shot beyond their capabilities or the capabilities of the weapon at hand.

Send in your "sworn" accounts of the action that can possibly win you the prize, and additionally the envy of your fellow hunters and shooters.

Good luck to all. ----pruhdlr
  #59  
Old 07-20-2008, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by KenK View Post
I would pass, no matter what firearm I happened to have in hand. Never wanted to kill a deer that bad.

Apperently you do not understand how effective a "Texas heart" shot can be with the proper weapon and bullet
  #60  
Old 07-20-2008, 06:14 AM
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Alright, enough. This degenerated from useful information, into a peeing contest.

Thread closed.
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