I think Sue is a cowboy action shooter and, even if not, she caters to them. Alot of .45cal (and others) that can be reloaded in turret and progressive setups. That's a trifle different than what we're talking about here.

I think you'd be fine with a Classic Cast single-stage. That's all I have and it's all the speed I need. The Classic Turret is recommended though, while operated in single-stage mode (I would anyway), TO give you the benefit of having the dies set-up and adjusted, for each caliber, ready to go by just popping them in. THat's really the only advantage. You would still be treating it as a single-stage press. Sue might not see that that's your intent (well, our intent to convince you to do) ((( )))

See, she tinks you should just setup your powder charger, adjust it to throw say .48.6 grains of IMR4350, and GO! I don;t do that and I know from reading their words that most of the reloaders in here don;t do that either when reloading rifle cartridges. Usually, each powder charge gets checked on a beam scale, or at bare minimum on a digi-scale. That means it doesn;t get done "on the press".

Either way you go, it's all going to work for you. See, the single-stage press I have can only handle one die at a time. That is NOT a problem or an inconveience, nor is it a hassle to change from neck-sizing to the bullet seater when I have 20 cases sized and charged. It's more that I want the luxury of having the dies all "in the turret", and when I'm done charging 20 cases, I can just manually spin the turret to the next die (bullet seater) and go. Hehehe....I certainly don;t need that!

In fact, while I'm rambling as I always do, if I reached the day when I was ready to order a Classic Turret, I would probably "chicken out". Why? Because I love the reloading process. All of it. Any shortcuts steal part of that process from me. Sometimes I think I shoot my cartridges just so I can head back home and go through "the process" again.......

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Stretch ®

"If you are a reloader and you don't know Lee, you don't know Jack" - Floydster

DON'T BE SCARED©

That's the truest statment in the entire thread.

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Remember - always have your democrats neutered or spayed - Ann Coulter

Ok, so my mind is again made up! (For now...maybe...)

Stretch, you suggested (essentially) 6 dies. Now, if I use a hand priming tool, I'm down to 5. Is there another way to deprime, or is the mechanical advantage of the press a necessity?

I certainly agree with having a full length AND neck sizing die. In fact, I would certainly say it's a must. I also agree with the crimping die.

Also, with these powder dippity doo dads...is it frustrating to get accurate loads? I'm assuming these are similar to a simple measuring spoon, and you would first start off with the largest spoon (that won't take you over your maximum on the load), then down to the next largest one that will fill the remaining portion of the load, and so on?

Some really good salesman in this thread , even though I am completely satsified with my own equipment my interest have been perked by the testimonials here. Kind of makes it hard for a Newby to decide I would guess.

Depriming - Lee makes a family of decapping rods and bases. I use them a lot for decapping range pickup brass. Only the crimped primers typically found in military brass are tough to get out.

The Dipper Cups come in a set of 15 and are graduated in 1/3 cubic centimeters. I wish they had finer granularity but they don't. The set comes with a data reference chart for quite a few different powders that is pretty accurate. THE DIPPER CUPS ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR A SCALE. I like them because they are dirt simple to use and remarkably repeatable. Once you zero in on a load it is very handy to have a dipper cup for the powder you use.

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Remember - always have your democrats neutered or spayed - Ann Coulter

Please excuse my interruption of this thread but..

are you saying you use dippers in place of a powder measure? maybe a quick explaination if you don't mind.

The only time I use dippers is in loading shotgun shells, and then only if I don't have the right hardware set up.

I load for 221 Fireball (Reloader #7), 223 Remington (Varget, H4895, IMR 4895, Reloader 10X), 25-06 (H4831, Retumbo), 7mm Rem Mag (Retumbo) and 45-70 (Varget, H4895) and have developed a load that allows me to use a Lee Dipper Cup for charging the case for each of them. I use my powder measure when developing a load and usually end up in an optimal charge range (OCR) where a small differnece in powder won't affect my point of impact.

I scoop the dipper cup into a powder resivoir (a small porcelin container) and level it with a wooden tongue depresser. I've measured hundreds of "dips" checking for repeatability and am happy with the technique. The recurring dips are always well within .1 grains to each other. The thing to watch is the data that comes with the dipper cups is not absolute. I've found differneces in the data vs. what I measure but what I measure is always consistent. The differnces are understanable given the powder density lot to lot will vary by some amount.

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Remember - always have your democrats neutered or spayed - Ann Coulter

I think I went overboard with the dies, listing them instead of sticking to what a new reloader needs. The four are essential, I think. No...to be absolutely correct, only 2 are essential for rifle: full-length sizer and bullet seater. But let's say four because I think both the neck sizer and crimp die are essential.

Add to that the universal decapper. You only need one and it will cover all your "normal" calibers. You must leave the decapping pins in your full-length and neck sizing dies because they perform more essential operations than decapping, but at least their "insides" are saved from dirt and grime if you have the universal decapper.

On priming, I really shouldn;t have even mentioned the little "die" has for priming on the press. No, you certainly don;t need that, nor do I. Another luxury is all it might turn out to be, at best. The hand primer is the best thing going, for me. It's fast and accurate.

Marsms, either press you get will come equipped ready to priime, as is. It may not come with a primer feed (unecessary in my opinion), depending on what you order, but it comes with primer arms that slide into the ram. Using that method, you load a primer one at a time by hand, and press the press lever up. The ram goes down and seats the primer in the case at the bottom of the ram stroke. It's difficult for me. Not only is leverage a problem this way, but it's hard to "feel" when the primer is set just right - to avoid crushing it in the primer pocket or to avoid leaving it too high out of the pocket. You'll see when your press comes in. I say order the hand primer setup fo large rifle. You'll be fine.

I have a set of Lee dippers and I don;t use them. As Flashhole said, you really can;t use them as a substitute for a scale. Now, Richard Lee (and others) years ago would take an appropriate-sized dipper, dip it in the powder, scrape the top off with a business card, and funnel it into a case. Done. That's way too inaccurate for me - I've tried it. I can accept .1 grain difference in my loads (though I don;t like it), but not .4 or .5 of a grain! A dipper and shellholder will come with every Pacesetter or Deluxe set of dies you buy. My dippers just end up sitting in the die box, getting jostled out of position once in awhile, but I leave them in there....where they belong.

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Stretch ®

"If you are a reloader and you don't know Lee, you don't know Jack" - Floydster

DON'T BE SCARED©

As for powder dippers, it bears repeating that you need a scale - I have the "cheap" and accurate Lee balance beam (actually two). You have to be certain what powder you are using. I don't care if it is a brand new cannister with a shiny label (the manufacturers have and will mislabel powder) you need to check it out on a scale against a known volume, i.e. the dipper. Many myself included will get two sets (or more - they are cheap) and will modify a dipper or two by grinding them down to dispense the exact volume of powder needed. You see, you are charging by volume not "weight" which is safer as scales can lie. I get within .2 grains or better which is good enough for me - obviously not for everyone. Read the 35 customer reviews/comments at Midway USA on these dippers and not one would give them up. Once you have identified the powder in your cannister, for sure, and don't dump the wrong powder back into it, then you can put away your scale until you buy some new powder. If you have multiple powder cannisters then weigh out the first dipper load just to be sure. I only use Unique so my scale can gather some dust if I buy an 8 pound cannister. For what it is worth the man himself, Richard Lee said that if he could have only one press it would be his turret press. He also strongly recommends charging by volume, not by weight for safety. Finally, the Lee hand held Auto Prime is awesome. Again just read some of the 120 customer comments/reviews on Midway USA and you will get it. I still want those Classic Presses but will live with my "Pre-Classics."

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"Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
James. C. Henderson

Just one more thing about the dippers (and I know Jmortimer is fully aware of this): If you take a dipper and scoop it down into the powder, then carefully scrape the top level, it will contain, let's just say 38.0 grains of Varget. If you lower the dipper into the powder, bottom first, and let the powder flow into the dipper before scraping level, it will weigh, say... 37.6 grains of Varget. Now, if you use either of the above methods, then tap the dipper a couple of times before scraping level, it might weigh, say....38.6 grains of Varget!

Dipper users, like users of powder measures, know that the exact same sequence of movement is essential to getting the same charge. If I throw my powder measure handle up and jar the hopper, then slam the lever down, I'll get more powder in my scale pan. So if I'm going to treat the powder measure that way, I have to do it the same every time, or the weight will vary. Same with dippers.

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Stretch ®

"If you are a reloader and you don't know Lee, you don't know Jack" - Floydster

DON'T BE SCARED©

You know way more than I do and it is very important to use the dippers correctly - Richard Lee explains this very well - you push the dipper down into the powder bottom first and let it fill itself. You do not scoop. By the way Stretch, I went over to Midway USA - following my own advice to re-read the dipper reviews and comments from users and it seems there are more than a couple who dip out a charge and trickle out the last fraction of the load. That way you get exactly what you want. They seemed to like it for ultra accurate loads.

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"Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
James. C. Henderson

I can see what you're saying about volume vs. weight.

Are the tricklers accurate? I'd assume they would measure by volume, correct? What would be the correct procedure for using one? The powder is trickled onto the scale, then dumped from the pan into a funnel on the case?

They dispense tiny amounts of powder to get you exactly where you want to be and are only as accurate as your scale. Flashhole posted a picture of his with his scale. Once you get exactly what you want you dump the load in the funnel.

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"Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
James. C. Henderson

Yes - for all the reasons stated above.

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"Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
James. C. Henderson

The particular caliber I had so much trouble with was .44 Mag., which doesn't come in Berdan, and doesn't have crimped-in primers. I simply could not tighten the collet enough to grip the decapping shaft tight enough to push a primer out. I ground the shaft a bit to make a small step so the bottom of the collet would have a step to press against.

Depends on the guy, and the caliber.
For all of my bolt action rifles, I have 1 set of 2 dies: decapping/sizing and bullet seating.

For .30-06 in my M1, I added a Lee Factory crimp die, which I found recommended on this forum. It has a unique action that squeezes a crimp on jacketed bullets by a purely lateral force. It helps to keep the bullet in place when cycled thru that vigorous semi-auto action. All other mfrs' dies try to crimp using an axial force against the case mouth, which tends to distort the shoulder. I've only found this necessary in the semi-auto. I guess it would help in big magnums which use slow powders, but I don't have any.

For pistols, I have a single 3-die set per caliber: carbide sizer/decap, expander, bullet seater/crimper. I only use cast bullets, so this is sufficient. It's also possible to get a 4-die set, which adds a separate crimp die, but I've not found this necessary.

.

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Do not confuse liberal with liberty, especially when the Right to Keep arms is concerned.
Liberals are like Slinkies - Not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the staris.

Stretch - does the Lee Universal Decapper work with the short magnum cartridges? I think marsms wants to load 270 Winchester Short Magnum. I don't know if the stubby fat case will work with the standard universal decapper.

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Remember - always have your democrats neutered or spayed - Ann Coulter

Also, you can see the press priming arm in the picture I posted.

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Remember - always have your democrats neutered or spayed - Ann Coulter

I never could figure out why a neck-size die is needed. I just raise my FL die ¼ turn, or .02", and then it doesn't come down on the case far enuf to press the shoulder. Cases sized this way will fit back into the last bolt-action chamber they were fired in...

And cases fired out of semi-autos ought to be FL sized, not neck sized, anyway.

.

__________________
Do not confuse liberal with liberty, especially when the Right to Keep arms is concerned.
Liberals are like Slinkies - Not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the staris.

I suppose it's not that big of a deal not to have a universal decapper anyway?

No but we don't want you sending hate mail to Stretch for an honest mistake if it doesn't work for that case. He's sensitive you know.

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Remember - always have your democrats neutered or spayed - Ann Coulter