Shooters Forum

Shooters Forum (http://www.shootersforum.com/)
-   Handloading Equipment (http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-equipment/)
-   -   Neck Sizing Lee Collet Die ?? (http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-equipment/81587-neck-sizing-lee-collet-die.html)

Savage110c 12-09-2012 12:34 PM

Neck Sizing Lee Collet Die ??
 
I got my new Lee Collet Necksizing Die yesterday.The 25.06 is in need of some handloads.I do have a question that I hope that someone here can answer.I have never used one of these dies before.When sized and primed and charged,how much pressure should the bullet have before crimping?I've got 10 Nosler 85 gr. silver tipped Varmint loads with bullets in them waiting on my new caliper for overall length.I can still push or pull the bullet up or down with a little pressure.Is that enough?

Darkker 12-09-2012 02:16 PM

Read your instructions, or go to: Lee Precision the Innovative Leader in Reloading Equipment
No, you should never be able to move the bullet by hand, regardless of whether or not you want to crimp.

StretchNM 12-09-2012 03:24 PM

Savage, forgive me if I state the obvious, but here're my recommendations:
- take it apart and clean it, then use 1/2 drop of oil to spread around the outside of the collet fingers;
- adjust it per instructions, like Darkker said;
- raise the ram on a fired (and clean) case and, using slow, steady downward pressure on the handle, feel the initial "crush" of the neck;
- lower the ram enough for the case to clear the die, and give the case half a spin or so in the shellholder;
- raise the ram again, this time putting considerable downward pressure on the press handle. 25lbs is what the book says, so you have to guesstimate that. A tad extra won;t hurt. You're done.

The collet squeezes the case neck against the sizing mandrel, so there's only so much "tension" you can get. Take a bullet and, using your fingers, try as hard as you can to push the bullet into the case mouth. It shouldn't go. That's plenty.

bsn 12-09-2012 03:44 PM

I spin the case 1/2 a turn and run the die again-I use alot of pressure. The Lee collet die is a great die but takes some getting used to.

recoil junky 12-09-2012 04:41 PM

Chuck the mandrel in a drill, take some 400 grit emery and "polish" the area where the neck of the case is being sized. Measure the area and repeat until you get about .001-.002 smaller than the original diameter of the collet. Now run a couple shells throught the die. There should a bit of drag when pulling the brass over the mandrel that hasn't been polished, but no much. Now try the bullet in the neck. If it's still "loose" go another .001 smaller.

You may have to "polish" the remainder of the mandrel to reduce the drag. I follow up with 0000 steel wool then crocus cloth to make the mandrell as smoth as possible.

I've done this to several collet dies and it reduces the force needed to operate the die so the die and your press don't have to be stressed quite so much.

I also use a good extreme pressure grease (lithium disulfide or molybdenum disulfide) to lube the fingers where they contact the die body.

RJ

byrl 12-09-2012 04:46 PM

Yes to all the above. I have Lee collet neck sizers for several rifle calibers and using them are second nature now, but there was a learning curve. My problem was not putting enough pressure on the press handle. Also, make sure the top cap of the die is firmly screwed in. If it has even a little play in it, you can pop it right off stripping the aluminum threads. Even though it was my fault, Lee still replaced it at no charge.

MontyF 12-09-2012 05:58 PM

Before sanding the mandrel down I'd try annealing the cases. If the cases are work hardened there is enough springback to prevent them from sizing properly. When backing the case out of the collet die you should feel drag as the case neck slides off the mandrel.

Savage110c 12-11-2012 10:49 AM

Thank all of you for your replies.I'm starting to figure this thing out now.I guess that I will have to pull all of the bullets and primers out of them them first ten and start over.The cap was not tightened all the way down and I got a good few done.At least I am starting to like this thing now.I'll be taking it apart and following your directions next.Thanks.

broom_jm 12-11-2012 02:19 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do you need to remove the primers?

BKeith 12-11-2012 02:25 PM

With the Lee collet die, you have no choice, it's going to push the primer out. Trying them without the mandrell in, usually mess up the case, at least that has been my experience.

First off, for best accuracy, you really don't want to crimp them. About the only time I crimp is when loading a tube magazine like for a lever guns, and automatics (which I doubt you will be loading for.

Wait until you get your caliper before you load very many, when you get it measure the neck after you resize it and before you insert the bullet. Seat the bullet and measure the neck again, this measurement should be .001" - .0015" larger than the measurement you got before seating bullet. For hunting loads, and if your rifle is lite and has a lot of recoil you may even want to go as much as .002" (I would try the .001 first). This should be more than enough to hold the bullet without crimping.

If you can't get that much interference, then you might want to look at getting a smaller mandrell (pin). Just be aware, too much pressure on the collet neck sizer and it may crush the case enough to make a small shoulder that will keep the shell from chambering. The only time I've even run into this was several years ago when I annealed some 6mm's too hot, making them too soft to withstand the pressure, but it can happen if you happen to have soft brass or way too much pressure.

Ram Rod 12-11-2012 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broom_jm (Post 648145)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but do you need to remove the primers?

Pull the bullets and dump the powder. No need to do anything with the primers. Matter of fact, it would be dangerous to deprime your primed cases. Removing live primers is dangerous. I have a small pistol primer lodged in my left hand from ten years ago to prove it.
I've always neck sized only for my cases on bolt actions. There should be plenty of tension on the neck to hold the bullet securely. I've done plenty of light weight (90gr HP) loads for my .308win with very good results. I end up reaming the case mouths for smooth insertion and no lube. Be careful what you're doing.

MontyF 12-11-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ram Rod (Post 648160)
Pull the bullets and dump the powder. No need to do anything with the primers. Matter of fact, it would be dangerous to deprime your primed cases. Removing live primers is dangerous. I have a small pistol primer lodged in my left hand from ten years ago to prove it.
I've always neck sized only for my cases on bolt actions. There should be plenty of tension on the neck to hold the bullet securely. I've done plenty of light weight (90gr HP) loads for my .308win with very good results. I end up reaming the case mouths for smooth insertion and no lube. Be careful what you're doing.


I'm afraid he will have to deprime the cases before using the Lee Collet neck die since they don't have a removable depriming punch, at least mine don't.

recoil junky 12-11-2012 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontyF (Post 648166)
they don't have a removable depriming punch, at least mine don't.

Mine don't either. I've removed many live primers without a mishap, but that's not to say you should.

RJ

Savage110c 12-12-2012 06:24 PM

I got the neck sizer working perfectly now.I tightened down the cap as it was'nt fully tight and rotated each case a half turn and sized it again.I still have them original 10 sitting there without the bullets and the powder in them.Guess I will just fire them and do it all over again.Chalk it up to experience.Thanks all.The die works very well.Fired off about 6 shots tonight.The first loads in this 25.06 and it really out did the factory box of 90 grain hollow points that came with it.No caliper yet but,used a factory round to set up the seating die.Thanks all.All of your information was correct and really helped me out.

StretchNM 12-12-2012 08:40 PM

If you have a Lee Decapping die you can gently decap those 10. Clean your primer catching tray (or tube) and your primers will be good to use again. Just turn your shellholder so the opening is away from you and decap them gently. Wear safety glasses and hearing protectors if you like.

If you don;t have a decapper die, then you can do the same thing with the Lee Full-Length sizer die. Loosen the nut that holds the decapper/expander and set it in deep (so it sticks out the bottom more than is usual). The "normal" setting for that mandrel is so that the top is mas o menos about flush with the top of the collet nut. So, for this "decapping" operation, the top of the mandrel will sit below the top of the nut.

Now raise the ram with shellholder in place. Screw the die in just enough so that the decapper pin extends past the bottom face of the shellholder about 1/8" or so. This ensures that enough of the pin is protruding to push the primer out of the case. Lock the die down. You should now be able to decap those ten cases without sizing the case. You might need a sliver of lube inside the case mouth, maybe, because the expander is still going to open up the neck, and there may be a tad of squeeze coming back out, but you'll get your primers back and your cases won;t be any worse for wear. When done, readjust the height of the decapper/expander mandrel so it sits flush with top of nut. Then, maybe invest in the $10(?) Lee Decapper die so you don;t have to mess with your full-length sizer again. (((:D)))

When setting that full-length die up for decapping, don't over-tighten the collet nut at the top. You don;t need it super tight for this operation, plus you may want to loosen again and set the expander even deeper. The key here is to have the pin sticking out the bottom of the die as far as possible yet still leave enough at the top that the collet nut can grab it and hold it while decapping. The further the pin protrudes, the further the bottom of the die will be from the shellholder, thus: the less chance you'll have of any sizing of the neck. The expander is still going to "open" up the neck but, with luck, there'll be no squeeze from the die and things will go smoothly on the way out. But...when you're done and re-adjusting the expander mandrel to its normal position, tighten that collet nut up nice and tight. Tight! Now you'll need to put your collet die back in and neck size those cases again. But you got your primers back!

Nothing at the reloading bench bugs me more than wasted primers. If I drop even one on the shop floor and can't find it, I'll have a hard time sleeping that night. It's painful to open a primer tray sleeve and see a primer missing out of a row of ten!

Confederate Ordnance 12-20-2012 08:59 AM

Probably gonna get razzed for this but... I never could get the hang of using the collet dies per the instructions. I have my RCBS Rockchucker press set to SLIGHTLY cam over and it works very well. Neck tension is still light compared to a conventional neck size die, but its more consistent. I don't get any extrusion growth but I do disassemble the die every 200 uses and clean/lube the collet and its mating surfaces. After loading about 900 rounds ( .270 WCF), I notice no excessive wear or other damage. All I see is a burnishing at the points of contact. I'm not advocating it, but so far it has worked well for me.

recoil junky 12-20-2012 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confederate Ordnance (Post 649732)
Probably gonna get razzed for this but... I never could get the hang of using the collet dies per the instructions. .

Me niether!! That's why I did what I did to mine. All five of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confederate Ordnance (Post 649732)
I don't get any extrusion growth

The best part of using Lee's collet dies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confederate Ordnance (Post 649732)
but I do disassemble the die every 200 uses and clean/lube the collet and its mating surfaces. After loading about 900 rounds ( .270 WCF), I notice no excessive wear or other damage. All I see is a burnishing at the points of contact. I'm not advocating it, but so far it has worked well for me.

My .223 collet die has seen in excess of 10,000 rounds. Still as tight as it was 15+ years ago. I don't clean and lube it every 200 rounds but it does get some preventive maintainence.

RJ

BKeith 12-20-2012 04:00 PM

I let mine cam over also but not because it takes that much pressure, but so I can do them all even.

On most of mine, I only want .0015" interference and to get this, it nomally takes very little pressure so to keep from having to quess, I let it cam over, but it almost feels like it's not doing anything when it does. For instance, I neck size most of my 223 brass to .245" and when the bullet is seated it expands back to .2465" but the collet die will take it all they way .242" with no problem.

One thing I've always done though is I highly polish the cone and tapper inside mine so they look chrome plated and I use Lyman resizing lube on both those surfaces regularly. They work 100 times better doing this than when they come new. It's very easy to way over pressure them after doing this.

Bird Dog II 12-20-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confederate Ordnance (Post 649732)
Probably gonna get razzed for this but... I never could get the hang of using the collet dies per the instructions. I have my RCBS Rockchucker press set to SLIGHTLY cam over and it works very well. Neck tension is still light compared to a conventional neck size die, but its more consistent. I don't get any extrusion growth but I do disassemble the die every 200 uses and clean/lube the collet and its mating surfaces. After loading about 900 rounds ( .270 WCF), I notice no excessive wear or other damage. All I see is a burnishing at the points of contact. I'm not advocating it, but so far it has worked well for me.

I'm with ya C.O. I have much better results using a precision mic to dial in the headspace for my bore and setting the Full Length dies to "partial full length size". In fact I have a 7 mm WSM and a .30-06 Lee Neck dies I'd sell cheap if anyone is interested?


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2