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  #1  
Old 12-12-2004, 10:36 AM
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Question 45-70 loads for hogs


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im going hog hunting next week and i will be taking my guide gun i was wondering if anybody has ever tried speer 405 grain slugs out of a guide gun or would i be better off with 300 grain slugs i havent tried the 405's yet to see how they shoot but i know my IAB sharps replica wont shoot anything lighter than a 400 without spraying all over the target im wondering if itll be the same with the hevier slugs in a guide gun and what loading do you use if you do ive got imr 4198 and h335 and imr 4227 and varget for powder, i might go out and pick up a can of imr 4895, there was a 350pounder taken where im going 2 weeks ago so i would like to use the heavier slug if i could also my reloading books have two diffent listings for imr 4198 one is, starting load in Lyman 47th ed is 33 grns and max load is 38grns,in Metallic Cartridge Reloading is 39 grns and max load 44grns, theres a big difference there so i was wondering if anybody had any ideas on which to use any thoughts would be appreciated thanks
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2004, 10:49 AM
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I personally would get some hardcast bulets in the 350-450 grain range and load them up with a good charge of either 4198 or H322...both of these powders ive gotten excellent accuracy out of my 45-70s. The problem with large hogs is that alot of jacketed bullets(soft points, hollow points, etc) dont offer enough penetration through that armorplate like layer of fat. A good hardcast with a wide metplat driven to a moerate velocity will offer great penetration but still give you a very destructive wound channel. Check out beartooth bullets 45 caliber selection...lasercast is also a good choice if you dont cast your own stuff. As for powder, I really like the H322 as its not temperature sensative so what it shoots at 80 degrees, you can be assured its going to be nearly the same at 20. You will be able to work up one load and use it year round without worrying about point of impact changing.
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2004, 08:38 PM
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Although there's nothing wrong with a good hard cast bullet, you're going next week so load up those 400gr. Speers and have fun. I put one through a hog with my .458 Win Mag. Ferocious expansion was the order of the day, but this was at velocities your Guide Gun won't see (not for more than one shot anyway). MV on my .458 Win Mag load was almost 2200 fps. That's bordering on too fast for the Speer, based on what I saw. But drop the velocity down a couple hundred feet per second for your .45-70 and it should be just great.

Can't help much with the powder selection, sorry - but you should be in great shape with this bullet in the Guide Gun. My .458 load was a case full of Varget, basically, as the stuff is a bit slow/bulky for the .458 and you really can't overload the .458 with the stuff. Some folks have reported it working well in the .45-70, also.

If you aren't real familiar with pig anatomy, don't shoot them too far back. Try to break one shoulder, the vital stuff is between them. Everything behind the shoulder is guts, basically.

Get a big'un!!!!
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2004, 04:53 AM
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If you're going to the 300 gr range, the only bullet that I would use for hogs is the Nosler Partition. If you're going to use the 400 gr Speer, what was said in MikeG's comments are dead on. I use IMR 3031 and IMR 4198 in my .45-70 loads for my Marlin and my Ruger #1, and have had great success. For the 300 gr Partition in my #1 I used 50 gr IMR 4198, Rem 9 1/2 primer and Remington cases. This gives me 2086 f/s at the muzzle. Works great on Whitetails, but haven't shot any hogs with it yet. Check out the appropriate manual and go from there.
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2004, 07:38 AM
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I shot a 350 lbs. feral hog with my 22" barreled 1895 45-70 and 405 grain Remington JSPs. Lengthwise penetration with a shot under the chin on the charging boar dropped him so his snout plowed into the ground. Here is my load.

Marlin 1895 45-70
405 grain Remington JSP seated to 2.54" COAL and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp die
Winchester brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primers
48 grains H322 START
55 grains compressed H322 MAXIMUM
MAXIMUM yields 1950 fps from my 22" barrel
Adapted from Hodgdon #27, work up carefully from START toward MAXIMUM watching for signs of excessive pressure or velocity

Here is my new 300 grain load. The 300 grain Speer UniCor is more than adequate for hogs. This is essentially the same load I use with the 300 grain Hornady hollow point.

Marlin 1895 45-70
300 grain Speer UniCor seated to 2.53" COAL and crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp die
Winchester brass, 2.1" trim
CCI 200 primers
50 grains H4198 START
55 grains H4198 HUNTING
HUNTING yields 2190 fps from my 22" barrel
Adapted from Hodgdon #27, work up carefully from START toward HUNTING watching for signs of excessive pressure or velocity
(55 grains of H4198 under a 300 grain Sierra at 2.525" COAL, other compenents the same, produces 27,600 CUP)
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2004, 08:46 AM
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With a sharps replica I would error on the side of caution and stick with the lighter starting load. Most loading manuals have 2 or 3 sets of data for 45-70. Make sure you are looking at the right set of data for the right gun. If you have a sharps and a 1895 laying around I would be VERY careful to mark your loads for each gun accordingly. Assuming your guide gun has the same twist rate as my 1895 the 405 should shoot beautifuly. Don't mix up cast 405 load data with jacketed 405 data. The jacketed bullet will produce higher pressure for any given powder charge. Good luck on your hunt.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2004, 08:58 AM
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45-70 loads for hogs

I have been shooting Hunting Shack Munitions (HSM) 405 grain hunting loads that exit the barrel at 1880 fps.
http://www.thehuntingshack.com/
They are soft point, flat point, semi-jacketed and they shoot nice groups at 100yds. 2-3inches from the bench with me shouldering the rifle (no clamps ands such. The recoil is fierce, I recommend a good "sissy pad" and my 1985 has broken two scopes with this ammo ( I now have Williams Fire Sights on it and can still shoot fist sized groups at 100 yds -- I have it sighted in for a 166 yd point blank)

They reload .50 cal for the Navy and are well respected in the "Sniper Country" forums

http://www.snipercountry.com/

I haven't put one through a pig yet but intend to on my next trip (just got the gun) in Jan or Feb.

Good luck !
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2004, 09:09 AM
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Let me add that SAAMI spec for the .45-70 is actually 28,000CUP, even though much published data doesn't go that high.

So, looking at the Hodgdon #27, there are any number of powders that will get you between 1700 and 1800 fps with the 400/405gr. bullets. That's a safe load for your Sharps, and will absolutely exterminate any hog that ever lived.

The 40,000CUP loads for the 400/405grain bullets 'only' gain about 200fps, on average, at more than a third greater pressure.

You'll never miss the 200fps in downrange performance, but your shoulder will thank you
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  #9  
Old 12-17-2004, 10:58 AM
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Pard, I think just about anything coming out of a .45-70 will smoke a hog. I could be wrong, as I've never hunted them before, but I figure a cartridge designed to kill buffalo should do fine against anything on land.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2004, 09:43 PM
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I have every intention of bagging a hog with 405 gr LFN bullets at 1050 fps. Either 12.0 gr of Green Dot or 12.0 gr of Universal will do the trick, but it seems the Green Dot is slightly faster and is a little more accurate. I get groups around 1" with Green Dot and 1 1/2" groups with Universal, both at 100 yards out of a 22" Handi rifle. Recoil is less than a .30-30, but the Taylor KO is 27.6.

Before I got the .45/70 I was going to use a 250 gr Beartooth LFNGC in .357 Mag brass at 1200 fps for deer and hogs.

With due respect, a .458 Win Mag isn't needed to kill hogs and you don't need a 405 gr travelling at 1800 fps either. Too many people use .223 Rem or .30-30 with good success, so why would any belch fire magnum be needed?
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2004, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul5388
I have every intention of bagging a hog with 405 gr LFN bullets at 1050 fps. Either 12.0 gr of Green Dot or 12.0 gr of Universal will do the trick, but it seems the Green Dot is slightly faster and is a little more accurate. I get groups around 1" with Green Dot and 1 1/2" groups with Universal, both at 100 yards out of a 22" Handi rifle. Recoil is less than a .30-30, but the Taylor KO is 27.6.

Before I got the .45/70 I was going to use a 250 gr Beartooth LFNGC in .357 Mag brass at 1200 fps for deer and hogs.

With due respect, a .458 Win Mag isn't needed to kill hogs and you don't need a 405 gr travelling at 1800 fps either. Too many people use .223 Rem or .30-30 with good success, so why would any belch fire magnum be needed?
If it were a .45 caliber handgun tossing 405gr. of lead at 1050fps, no one whould have any doubt that you were well armed for hogs. Considering the animal has no clue where the bullet came from, how would the effect be less just becasue it was fired by a rifle?

Stay in the same range brackets and big bore handgunners and the results will be just as effective.
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2004, 04:39 PM
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I have shot several hogs with a 300-325 grain hard cast bullets over 18-18.5 grains of 2400 or 22 grains of h-4227 for around 1100 fps. All died immediately one was BIG.

I also have shot two with beartooth 405 grains LFNs over 45 grains of reloader 7 (ruger No 1 might be warm for marlins). Not only did the hogs drop but I believe those bullets may still be orbiting the earth.

My point is I don't think there is a 45/70 load out there that will not drop a hog in its tracks. My experience is somewhat limited probaly seen around a dozen hogs killed with 44 mag 45 colt 45/70 308 and 30/30, but from what I have seen, they are not that tough as we are led to believe. One caviat is that all the ones I have seen die have been well hit with appropriate bullets.

Last edited by Jack Monteith; 12-22-2004 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Corrected load data
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2004, 07:08 PM
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AHHH!!! not 57 grains of RE-7 45 grains!!!! 57 was for 300 jacketed hollow points.

Since this is easy to do always remember never to trust some load off the internet without consulting a good manual.
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