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  #1  
Old 12-03-2007, 02:12 PM
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6.5 Jap reloading data


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Went to the Reno gun show yesterday and picked up eight full boxes of once fired factory Norma brass for about the cost of one box of factory loads. I want to start reloading for my 6.5 again, the most current reloading data that I have is from the Sierra 3 rd edition reloading manual. Does any body have any information on Reliant powders for the 6.5? I have a couple of boxes of Norma brass made for reloading the 6.5, the letters Re are on the headstamp but I have had problems with these cases, they swell up near the rim and are next to impossible to resize without shaving off some brass, has anyone else had this problem with this caliber or other Norma brass?
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2007, 02:18 PM
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Oversized chambers are common in military rifles. What make of dies do you have? I suspect you don't have enough taper at the mouth of the die. I had this problem with Hornady .222 dies.

Bye
Jack
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2007, 04:07 PM
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That has been a problem with Norma 6.5 Jap cases, a couple of articles in old "Handloader" magazine have discussed it. Evidently, the Japanese either changes the specs over time (and Normal made thier brass according to the earlier standard) or changed the chambers of the rifles.


Shot a good bit of 6.5jap, using necked down and fire formed 35rem. Necks come out short, but the case head fits a little better. Still not perfect, but they fit a bit tighter than Norma brass. Even remember the load:
160gr. Hornady RN
35gr. H4350 (slightly compressed)
WW LRP (just because they were easy to come by and cheaper than CCI's)
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2007, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Monteith View Post
Oversized chambers are common in military rifles. What make of dies do you have? I suspect you don't have enough taper at the mouth of the die. I had this problem with Hornady .222 dies.

Bye
Jack

Jack: I have RCBS dies.
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  #5  
Old 09-23-2008, 01:47 AM
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Norma 6.5 Jap Brass

HI ya fast Freddy! Norma brass was woefully undersized, the biggest problem being a too thin rim that automatically gave you .010" excess headspace, and a too small head. The good news is that I wrote them and they responded by correcting the dimensions. The original 6.5 Jap round had a .060" thick rim and according to Hatcher that rim was the headspace control. I had some of the old brass myself, thought the rifle was junk. Then I made some myself from 30/40 Krag, sized as it was supposed to be, and wonder of wonders, I got many reloads out of them instead of just a couple, no bulged cases either. My suggestion is to throw the old stuff away and get some of the new brass. There's an illustration on their website showing the new dimensions. Oh, I see you can put images on this forum (newbie) so here it is. If you order Norma brass, make sure you're getting the new stuff, there's still some of that old undersize stuff circulating.


Last edited by unclenick; 10-07-2008 at 04:09 AM. Reason: adjust image position for lower resolution monitors
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  #6  
Old 09-23-2008, 03:46 AM
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Graf's has Privi brass, seems to be the proper dimensions. Much better than the old Norma, and cheaper, too.
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  #7  
Old 09-23-2008, 04:54 AM
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FastFreddy, This is the longest number of responses regarding the 6.5x50 Arisaka
I have seen without someone saying something about P.O. Ackley and the strongest receiver in the world, for me? forget the receiver, I want the cases Ackley used, he could not blow 'it' up so I assume nothing blew up and if that is the case, he used some very fine cases.

I do not know what press and or dies you are using but resistance to sizing is caused by the lack of lube, using a little more than the required effort to size a case will result in a stuck case and or a collapsed case. The exception would be the sizing of the neck, I shorten (compress) cases as much as .030 thousands when necking a case up from 280 Remington to 30 Whelen, that takes effort, this is not a problem because it normally is a trade off in regard to trimming.

I went back and read your post again, the sizer die is shaving the case,

If the die is shaving the case look at the bottom of the die, the die must have a 'radius' not a sharp shoulder, though not necessary, the bottom of of a die is ground off for reasons know only to the grinder, when this happens, the radius is removed.

If there is a misalignment between the shell holder and die the shaving of the case will be on one side, another ill advised grinding is on the shell holder, not necessary, Redding shell holders that have a deck height variation that is + or - to either side of .000 is not necessary either.

If you measure the case before you fire the rifle and again after and have a measurable amount of expansion at the web due to expansion, there are serious problems, both are bad. Your loads, you have control over that, the chamber, if the chamber is large for what ever reason, good news, The 6.5X50 has been chambered for the 7X57 Mauser case, it is called the 6.5 Japaneses257 Roberts, there is no down side, I have made this case using 30/06 cases,

F. Guffey
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  #8  
Old 09-23-2008, 05:17 AM
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I have made this case using 30/06 cases, and the 257 Roberts, 7X57 Mauser etc..

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...der-17-powder/

http://www.alliantpowder.com/

http://www.accuratepowder.com/reloading.htm


F. Guffey
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I have made this case using 30/06 cases, and the 257 Roberts, 7X57 Mauser etc...
I have only a little experience in reforming new calibers' cases. You must be very good indeed if you can make rimmed rounds from rimless!!

I suspect you actually made the 7.7 Jap from 30-06.

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  #10  
Old 10-05-2008, 08:59 PM
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It's a matter of remembering to keep headspace on the shoulder, by adjusting your dies upward, otherwise you'd have a case with .010 excess headspace like the old Norma. At one time I made up a bunch with US 7.62 NATO. Very labor intensive swaging it down as it had to be done incrementally. What I wound up with was a head of .4575 and rim diameter of .466, the same as the old Norma brass
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  #11  
Old 10-06-2008, 04:47 PM
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6.5 Jap

I made cases from 35 rem in two steps. but now I bought privi cases from GRAF $39 per 100.
for the poster yes you can easily make rimmed cases by using 30/06.the base is big and you size the body. I used to do that yrs ago.
I have a harbor tools cut of saw.minisaw.$29 great for shortning cases.
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  #12  
Old 10-07-2008, 04:43 AM
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Madsenshooter,

Welcome to the forum. If you were lurking before joining, you'll already know the rules are to join in and be polite and not post anything you'd be embarrassed to explain to an 8 year old. Oh yes. And to have fun.

I am wondering if Fastfreddy isn't going to run into a problem with his sizing die being too tight for the new brass? If it was shaving brass off the old Norma cases coming out of his chamber, it might well overexercise the good stuff, too? What did you use by way of an FL die?
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  #13  
Old 10-07-2008, 04:58 AM
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Hi Unc! Hilliard, I used to work on Sawmill Road, Tuller Printing, and I'm originally from a small town in SE Ohio, Murray City. My final die was a C&H 6.5 Jap die. I'm suspecting that Fastfrddy's die either wasn't finished right or has been ground off. I've bought a few dies off ebay that had the end ground off for some reason. Glad I got them, if someone had set them up in the usual manner of having the shellholder touch the bottom of the die, they'd have made shells with excess headspace. I never did size anything in them, don't know if they'd shave off anything or not.
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  #14  
Old 10-07-2008, 05:11 AM
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And... I used to be a member of the Zanesville Rifle Club. Ever been over to Blue Rock Nick? Know any other of the members? It's been quite a few years since I've been then, but I see Vince Jiga is still active. I've often wondered if Jerry Jones, a teacher from the Newark area is still active or for that matter alive. He's also a mamber of the Marine Corp League, and a big proponent of the 2nd amendment in his classes. At one time I was on a state championship highpower team with the Greenwood brothers and a little fat guy that had the best shooting day of his life, he carried the rest of us shooting x's and 10s all day! That was back in the late 80's. We were in the marksman division.
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2009, 02:47 AM
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I think I can explain the ground dies you guys are finding. I have 56 sets of dies left and of those about a dozen I have had to chuck up in lathe and take off anywhere from .005" to .015" in order to have them bump the shoulders back. They were "chambered" too deep at the factory. I have cut off several brands so it is not the fault of any one brand.

I have had a couple Type 38s and the Norma brass I have did fine in both of them with multiple reloads. I have about 400 Norma 6.5 Jap unfired brass NIB I kept when I sold the rifles figuring I would get another some day but have not.

I have formed 7.7 out of 30.06 but I found out very quickly not to use commercial brass but LC Match 06 cases and they work fine.

The two best tools I have found to help out are the MO Gage and L.E. Wilson case gages. I use the MO gage to adjust the dies so the shoulder is only set back .001" to .002". Factory chambers can be .006" longer and I have seen them.

I have also found that having several sets of dies in the same caliber helps out as follows.
For instance in 30.06 I have four sets of dies and they size the bases to:
.4655", .467" .469", .471" . If I am loading for a factory gun I fire the cases and measure the base and pick the next size down. Most 30.06 chambers run .471 to .473 but I have seen fired cases measure .475.
For the .471" I use the .469" so as not to overwork the brass. The .471" was a .469 die I polished out to .471" and it will work fine on some rifles as it still reduces the shoulder diameter and bumps the shoulder back.

I am always on the lookout for dies at flea markets, yard sales etc and when I can pick them up cheap I get them.

I do not nor have I ever owned a small base die. A friend called the other day and he said he had to order a small base die for his 308 and I asked him to measure the base dimension .200" up from rim and he said it was .469". I suspect the SB dies are not really small base but a die that has been inspected closer to determine that it will actually bump shoulder back to factory length.


All new 30.06 I have ever measured be in commercial or LC measures .465".
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