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200 yd v.s. 100 yd groups

7K views 12 replies 11 participants last post by  recoil junky 
#1 ·
I'm not sure where to put this but to me it's more a "reloading phenomenon" than a "rifle anomally". kdub,faucettb, feel free to put it where it belongs

OK here goes. When I was shooting my 700SPS in .223 at ranges past 150 yards I noticed I was doing more "missing". Now the load I worked up for it initially I shot for group at 100 yards. OK under 3/4 inch, that ought to kill squirrels. Well it didn't work out that way, so I went back to the drawing board and worked up a load that shot 3/4 inch groups at 200 yards

It's about the same size and configuration as the 100 yard group. I haven't shot this load at 100 yards at paper to see how it does, but I did notice a marked improvement in hits on critters on shots over 150 yards. It, didn't however make the number of hits on critters diminish at less than 100 yards. The load I ended up with was a load I had previously rejected when shot at 100 yards.

The square was point of aim and not to be confused with where the shots "were supposed to go". And the two errant holes? My bad.:rolleyes:

My question is this, and it seems I read/heard it some where before, that a load may shoot well at 100 yards, but not so at 200 etc. Could this be the case?

RJ
 
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#2 ·
Well, I've never had a firearm that grouped well at a closer range and not keep a pretty good group further out.

Some bullets may be over or under stabilized and do well at close range, but then go to heck at further ranges. Notice you're shooting a 40 gr pill which seems kinda light in a standard twist barreled .223 Rem. That MAY indicate under stabilization unless you push them fairly fast. Then again, some bullets don't want to stabilize until they are down range a ways.
 
#9 ·
Well, I've never had a firearm that grouped well at a closer range and not keep a pretty good group further out.

Some bullets may be over or under stabilized and do well at close range, but then go to heck at further ranges. Notice you're shooting a 40 gr pill which seems kinda light in a standard twist barreled .223 Rem. That MAY indicate under stabilization unless you push them fairly fast. Then again, some bullets don't want to stabilize until they are down range a ways.
I had an older rem 760 in 308. It (we) shot good for years (so I thought). at a 100 yds it would shoot around 1 1/2" at 100 with nearly anything. shot it occasional at 200 to make sure it was "on".

One day it was still shooting 1 1/2 at 100, and at 200 it was 8-18 inches! No key holing just really spread out. I figure since it was so old the barrel was gone, so I bout a new barrel from one placae and a new bolt from another and that barrel shoots just fine.

The old barrel was going to be a 338-08, but I lost interet in that project.

Cleaned it
 
#3 ·
Yes, I've seen loads that shot better at 100 than at 200 -- and, I've seen the opposite, too! I have one rifle/load combo that will shoot about 1.5" at 100 yards -- and about 1.5" at 250! Makes no sense on the surface of things, but there it is.

Bullets do have to travel a ways before they "settle down", or stabilize completely. A given bullet may never get fully stabilized -- for instance, a 40 gr. .223 bullet fired from a rifle with a very fast twist, or a 72 gr. in a very slow twist. A bullet may also be overstabilized! Sounds funny, but an overstabilized bullet will tend to fly more nose-up at longer range, changing its ballistic coefficient and making it more susceptible to drift.
 
#4 ·
As Stated

Some bullets don't "go to sleep" until they have traveled 200+ yds.

This usually depends on bbl twist rate,bullet length/weight,size bore,speed of bullet and probably a couple of more things.

My .30-378 is like that. It will shoot better groups at 300yds than at 200yds. This,especially with the 210 thru 240 gr bullets. I have also heard of this with the 223's with the 69's thru 80's. -----pruhdlr
 
#5 ·
The Lazzaroni rifles have a reputation for this also. Don't know if there built that way on purpose, but have run across it with specific loads in rifles once in a while. I really don't know the cause, but the posters above have hit on some reasons that sound sensible.

Like kdub says certain bullet, caliber, spin combinations just act different.
 
#6 ·
On a regular basis,I shoot better minute of angle groups at 100 yards then the same loads shoot at 50 yards.Sometimes,I shoot the same size group; twice the minute of angle accuracy.
Sometimes,the same thing occurs with 100 and 200 yard groups;usually with longer,heavier bullets.
Frank
 
#7 ·
Do you have an adjustable objective on the scope? That really helps when you are going for really small groups at various ranges.

Know any bench rest shooters? They might be the people to ask re: 100 yard vs. 200 yard groups.
 
#8 ·
I fergot to mention thie SPS has a 1:12 twist barrel, the same as the old 788.
I figgered I could get the SPS to handle 40 grainers as well because of the same twist. I'm not complaining about the groups one bit. :D

Yes I do have an adjustable objective on the scope.

RJ
 
#10 ·
Though I tend to agree with the previous post,It could be you are concentrating more on the further away target than the closer one.Looking at a smaller target focuses aim better.At 100yrds i'll make a target with a bullseye about the size of a dime,200,300yrds i'll use a standard 1'' grid target with 1'' bullseye.The farter I go out the largher the bullseye.My 2 cents
 
#13 ·
Eight years later :D I am still using that same load with great success. Groups have actually gotten smaller over time with (and I'm guessing) close to 2000 rounds through the barrel. This rifle deserves a better scope than the 6-24X50 BSA that's on it, but the combination just flat works! 40 grain Vmax's at 3685 fps just disintegrate ground squirrels and put a serious hurt on prairie dogs!!

RJ
 
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