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  #1  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:05 PM
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Meplats


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A Word About Meplats
Some ammo and bullet manufacturers are promoting meplat size as something it is not! We at Buffalo Bore can use any meplat size we choose on our cast bullet loadings. We have done a great deal of research to determine optimum meplat size per caliber of bullet.
First, we have noted that in most situations, too big a meplat will carry too much weight forward on the bullet and be detrimental to accuracy. These detrimental effects to accuracy are most apparent at long range, but are also often noticeable at close range. With too much weight forward on the bullet nose, the bullet tends to loose some external stability as it flies through the air. Also, with too large a meplat, the bullet loses its aerodynamic qualities and becomes a close range only proposition.
Second and of greatest importance is that no cast bullet nose remains constant after making impact with any type of big game animal! We have used every commercially available bullet and several that are not commercially available in our testing. Upon impact, even the best alloys will smear the meplat edges. As the bullet passes through muscle and bone, its shape on the nose is changing rapidly. Some bullet noses will start to mushroom slightly while others will rupture and a little and still others will smear off the meplat edges to varying degrees. This happens with EVERY cast bullet in the world! Because of these factors, there is no way to determine the original meplat size of any cast bullet recovered from game or other test medium. We recognize that the bigger meplat will initially "slap" a little harder on impact, but after an inch or two of penetration, all bets are off as to how the meplat is performing - as it will not stay constant. Even in identical testing situations, all results on identical cast bullets vary. Also, no two field conditions can EVER be duplicated! So, we feel it is impossible to attribute terminal performances to meplat sizes that are changing in varying and unknown degrees every time an animal is shot.
In our testing, we have noticed that meplats over .300 inch (in 45-70 cartridges) may “hang up” when being fed though modern lever action designs. Of our seven factory test lever guns chambered in 45-70, two of them will experience a “glitch” when loaded cartridges with bullets having a meplat over .300 inch in diameter are fed through the action at high speed. Wouldn’t this be great in an emergency??? The old adage of “too much of any one thing, is not good”, certainly applies with meplats.
While we like big meplats, we are not willing to attribute performance characteristics to them that do not exist. Further, as previously noted, there are external and internal ballistic tradeoffs in increasing meplat size and putting too much weight and area forward on the bullet. After extensive testing, we have chosen meplat sizes that we believe will give the best overall performance in a wide range of uses and needs. We think we are using the best overall designs anywhere in the industry. We have come to this conclusion after much experience and testing.



Any comments from the experts?
  #2  
Old 10-30-2008, 02:32 AM
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Don't Buffolo Bore use Cast Performance brand cast bullets? Well anyway to me they look like CP bullets of the LBT design. Their testing sounds good but sounds like a competitor is causing them trouble or they think they are. I sure would not want a Dangerous game load to be hanging up on my follow up shot. They must have had a serious complaint with one of their loaded rounds. DoNO but sounds like they have some data that everyone would love to see with the reasons for them needing the data.

Oh! I sure ain't no expert. I have never cast a bullet in my life. I do shoot deer with them and they are a sledge hammer. Well the 290 gr LFNGC from Marshall is anyway in 44 mag. This thread has convinced me to gather some more data today. The tree stand awaits.

Last edited by Chief RID; 10-30-2008 at 02:35 AM.
  #3  
Old 10-30-2008, 03:26 AM
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This all boiled up on the old Sixgunners board between Tim Sundles (Buffalo Bore) and Randy Garrett (company with same name) a few years back. Went on for quite a few pages between the two of them.

Entertaining, good information, in the end I'm not sure how to pick a winner. But if you start off with a good cast bullet you've solved 90% of the battle
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2008, 03:42 AM
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im not sure i even understand meplat..but i understand results from my gun in various situations.
so for my .380 the flat nosed cast win 95 gr. did the best,after testing many protective rnd.. for my 38 snub totally different the 158 grn swc by rem tested devastating .. especialy out that size gun..
so don t go on what you read .. test on real flesh preferably live..a warm hot body with heart still beating is gonna react different the cold stif flesh..that presents a problem thats hard to overcome unless you are willing to shoot domesticated animals to get perfect info.. an im not ,so i do the best i can .. jmo
  #5  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:21 AM
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Can Guess.......

.......but not sure what the term "hang up" means to the writers.

In my use of wide meplate(mostly over .300"), hardcast bullets,loaded by me,in my .45-70 Marlins,.444 Marlin, my .454 Casull,and my .44mag Marlin 1894,I have never expieranced a "glitch".

Part of my testing newly loaded rds,even before going to the range is to load the mag to capacity,point weapon in a safe direction, and holding the weapons butt on my thigh,cycle the action as fast as I can. I do this several times.

I do,in fact,completely agree with their statement as to how a wide meplate performs when it strikes flesh,bone,and muscle. Also,with no jacket to shead,they penetrate streight and deep. Heck,that's why I use 'em.

Now........not saying their info is flawed,just that I have never expieranced a "glitch". -----pruhdlr

Last edited by pruhdlr; 10-30-2008 at 04:25 AM.
  #6  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:46 AM
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Funny after all that how accurate cast wadcutters are?
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:38 AM
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Bob, the first thing I thought of was the full wadcutter, but in SUPPORT of their statement. Wadcutters do lose stability and become highly inaccurate past a certain quite short range.

I haven't shot enough game to make any conclusive statements about how meplats change shape, except to the extent that they almost always do. I wholeheartedly agree with the comment “too much of any one thing, is not good.”

As a humorous aside, when bullet makers argue about this issue, do they praise "meplat" and decry "yoplat?"
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2008, 07:45 AM
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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=1><TBODY><TR vAlign=center align=middle><TD>meplats and impact effect</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
by Randy Garrett
The meplat is the frontal circular flat of a flatnose bullet that first comes into contact with game. The size or diameter of the meplat effects the performance of a cast bullet in a number of important ways. Among these are terminal stability, bullet length and subsequent power generation efficiency, wound channel diameter, rate of incapacitation, aerodynamics, and, in lever-action rifles, magazine safety. We take the view, common to experienced users of large caliber cast bullets, that a large frontal flat or meplat is essential in producing quick and humane kills on big game.

Terminal Stability
Terminal stability refers to a bullet's impact characteristics. Upon impact, a bullet can be expected to penetrate the game animal. However, a bullet's path through game tissue, whether it is straight, deep, or angular, is largely determined by its construction and design characteristics. Primary among those characteristics is the weight carrying capacity of the front of the bullet. Bullets with less weight in the forward half of the bullet, as compared to the rear half, tend to be less terminally stable and tend to exhibit characteristics such as yaw which reduce penetration depth, than bullets that carry similar amounts of weight in the front and rear. Since bullets with wider or broader meplats tend to carry more weight up front than bullets with smaller meplats, they tend to be more terminally stable and, as a consequence, produce deeper and straighter penetration channels. This is most apparent with relatively short bullets such as those used in handguns. The mechanics associated with this are pretty clear. When a bullet carries significantly more weight in the rear than in the front, there is a definite tendency for the rear of the bullet to overtake the front of the bullet upon impact. In other words, the bullet tends to go sideways. This is due to the complete loss of aerodynamic stability that occurs upon impact, and the greater momentum of the rear of the bullet when compared to the lighter front end of a small meplated bullet. This is especially important for those shooting the handgun, since smaller meplats have a relatively greater effect on the front to rear weight-carrying ratio of the bullet, since the bullets are shorter. When the subject turns to rifle bullets, especially the longer bullets that characterize heavy 45-70 bullets, the influence of meplat diameter on the front to rear weight ratios is generally less relevant to terminal stability, since the bullets are longer. Meplat diameter does, however, contribute to bullet length, with wider meplated bullets exhibiting shorter overall length than smaller meplated bullets of the same weight. This is quite relevant to the 45-70, as overall cartridge length is a critical measurement that cannot be exceeded if the cartridge is to chamber properly. Consequently, given a cartridge of a specific length, the cartridge with the shorter bullet possesses less seating depth, and as a result provides more room in the cartridge case for gunpowder. Simply stated, such a bullet can produce more power at the same pressure, or equal power at lower pressure, when compared to a bullet with greater length. Since broader meplated 45-70 bullets tend to be shorter at any given weight, they tend to provide a superior power to pressure ratio.

Wound Channel Diameter
The diameter of the wound channel produced by a proper hard-cast bullet is far more a product of the diameter of the meplat than the diameter of the bullet. This is of critical importance. As a consequence of this, wound channel diameter and the resulting speed of incapacitation can be substantially increased through the use of hard-cast bullets with broad meplats. This is readily observable through wet newspaper penetration testing, or by the careful postmortem examination of big game animals. Interestingly, as can be verified by testing, relatively small increases in meplat diameter produce relatively large increases in wound channel diameter. This is great news, as increased meplat diameter not only contributes to improved terminal stability and power to pressure ratios, it also produces substantially larger wound channels and faster incapacitation. We have observed this in our 44 Magnum and 45-70 production. Interestingly, our 540-grain Hammerhead for the 45-70 produces penetration channels or wound channels that appear to be fully twice the diameter of our 420-grain Hammerhead for the 45-70, yet the difference between the bullets' meplat diameters is only .030-inch. Our 420-grainer sports a meplat diameter of .330-inch and our 540-grainer sports a meplat diameter of .360-inch. What is also clear is that our 420-grainer with its .330-inch meplat produces wound channels substantially larger than those produced by the .300-inch meplat that is all to common to the caliber, and characterized our early efforts in 45-70.

Further considerations
Although broader mepated cast bullets generally produce larger diameter wound channels, sometimes, especially at the relatively high velocities produced by medium weight 45-70 bullets, impact stresses can be great enough to deform the meplat and effect the size and characteristics of the wound channel. Occasionally, when impact occurs at short range into heavy game even the toughest hard-cast bullet will deform at the meplat, reducing its diameter. This is most often observed when the impact occurs at short range into heavy bone, when impact velocity is relatively high. This is one of the primary reasons we offer our very heavy 540-grain Hammerhead, as its extra weight mandates a lower velocity, which tends to protect against significant meplat deformation when engaging the heaviest game. Since game such as buffalo and elephant are invariably shot at short range, logic strongly argues for a heavier bullet at lower velocity. In this way, the major determiners of impact stress, the speed of impact and the toughness of the target, do not tend to overwhelm the strength of the bullet. However, in the great majority of shooting circumstances broad meplated hard-cast bullets, such as our 420-grain Hammerhead, can be depended upon to produce substantially larger wound channels than smaller meplated hard-cast bullets and also provide faster incapacitation. Whereas smaller meplated bullets appear to never produce the large diameter wound channels normally produced by broader meplated bullets, unless they are sufficiently soft to cause expansion, which always limits penetration. This is the primary reason why we have designed our SuperHardCast Hammerheads with the broadest meplats available.
  #9  
Old 10-30-2008, 07:50 AM
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The Effects Of The Meplat On Terminal Ballistics

By Nathan Foster
<LEFT>Some history

The word meplat is a term used in ballistics terminology that has survived from a bygone era. The word itself is a french noun which means 'the flat of' and in ballistics it refers to the tip of a projectile. Meplat is not an adjective, it does not describe the shape of the tip or diameter in any way. Our current term could easily have been 'tip' or 'point' or even 'Fred' but instead, ballistic engineers of the world use the word meplat. The French were very much at the cutting edge of ballistics during the 19th century and the word meplat has survived out of an unconcious respect for these eary pioneers. The term mostly likely stems from the days when all conical projectiles had flat points. The front was therefore called the flat and the rear dubbed the heel. Nevertheless, do not be confused, the word meplat simply means 'tip' in todays terms.
As most will guess, the shape of the meplat (tip) has a great effect on external ballistics (how the projectile flys through the air). The shape can also have an effect on terminal ballistics and performance with regard to projectile energy transfer on game, projectile expansion and stress to the projectile during this rapid change in medium. Put simply, a wide flat meplat projectile has far greater potential to transfer its energy immediatley apon impact than a sleek pointed projectile when bullet construction of both designs is equal.
The differences become even more pronounced when using solid, non expanding bullets, whether they be constructed of hard cast lead or full metal (copper) jackets. Unfortunately, a wide flat pointed meplat can also handicapp a projectiles potential trajectory as well as a huge loss in velocity and energy at moderate to longer ranges which can inturn result in low energy transfer.
Ideally, to fully utilise a wide, flat meplat projectile, it needs to be used in firearms that are designed for close range work or- in cartridges which already have such low velocity that trajectory is not greatly effected by bullet meplat design.
Historically, U.S Gun writer Elmer Keith was the first hunter to both study and publish the effects of a wide, flat meplat, non expanding projectile used on game. There were definitely other hunters and ballisticians experimenting before him but it was Keith and his tenacious nature that made the wide, flat meplat into a 20th century issue. Keith pioneered the design of a flat point 250 grain .44 calibre hard cast lead pojectile for his .44 special revolver in 1926 with results that would forever shape his opinions on hunting bullet design and forever influence his staunchest fans. Yet today, more than 80 years later, the subject of metplat shape and surface area is largely untapped
<LEFT>Mechanisms

In plain terms, a wide flat pointed solid non expanding bullet, even if driven at handgun velocities, creates disprortionate to calibre wounding where a pointed, non expanding bullet would create a calibre sized wound. It is this dis-proportinate to calibre wounding that is of most interest to the hunter as it is this mechanism that promotes fast clean killing.
The physics involved in wide/ flat meplat wounding are very simple, the flat point meets huge resistance on impact causing the water in flesh to be forced violently away from the path of the bullet, this in turn results in broad wounding. At velocities above 1700fps and using a wide calibre, the .45-70 (.458") which this article is focused around, entry wounds using the widest possible metplat may be up to an inch in diameter with the wound channel slightly larger and remaining the same diameter for several feet. This opens up both the possibility of both broad wounding with solid projectiles combined with penetration not normally available with expanding type projectiles.
At this point it must be noted that all solid rifle projectiles give optimum penetration between impact velocities of 1200 and 2000fps, above which, resistance of water in flesh becomes much harder. Higher velocities are better for obtaining wider wounding rather than deeper penetration.
Oddly, although entry wounds with wide flat metplat bullets are almost always large, non expanding bullets of this style do not seem to produce hydrostatic shock at the typically low muzzle velocities produced by big bore rifle and handgun cartridges. By hydrostatic shock, I mean the ability of the projectile to send a shock wave through the ribs and into the spine with such speed that the central nervous system shuts down the brain (temporary coma) during which time the vitals bleed out before the animal regains conciosness, giving the illusion that it has died 'instantly'.
Due to the fact that slow, non expanding wide, flat meplat projectiles do not produce any shock effect whatsoever, when using such bullets on dangerous game, hunters are advised to expect clean but delayed kills, a potentially deadly situation. Flat metplat non expanding bullets definitely give optimum results when striking major bones. When bones are hit, wound channels change from being consistant 1 to 2" wide wound channels to much more dramatic wounding. When this type of bullet strikes bone, the fragments that separate tend to be very large and incapacitating.
On average, again using the .45-70, wound channels created by flat metplat non expanding projectiles are about four times the size of the original .458" calibre hard cast bullet however expanding projectiles in .45-70 will normally produce internal wounds twelve times their original bullet diameter at close ranges and in high velocity loadings. Needless to say, expanding bullets are capable of producing faster kills. The use of a flat metplat non expanding bullet therfore requires careful consideration.
As stated, wide, flat metplat non expanding projectiles are typically slow or 'delayed' killers, even with good shot placement. This can pose serious problems when hunting large dangerous game. Worse still, in a moment of intense stress such as during a charge, poor shot placement by the hunter may lead to minimal wounding where a premium controlled expanding bullet may have been capable of more devastating wounds. It is a tough call, on frontal shots, the flat metplat non expanding projectile driven at moderate velocities, even if missing the vitals or forwards locomotive muscles and bones, still has the potential to smash pelvis and rear leg bones. Several reports indicate that hunters have indeed anchored large heavy animals in this way.
There is not only great room for experimentation with wide metplat bullets, but also expanding wide metplat bullets, an area which most manufacturers have yet to tap into. Authorities on the subject of wide metplats generally view .300" as being the minimum and .360" being the maximum practical width for metplats of .458" calibre. These measurements prove true when tested on game and the difference that an .060" (1.5mm) increase in metplat width makes to wounding and fast killing is often dramatic.
Below are a series of photos taken from a simple days experimentation with the .45-70. The game hunted on this occasion were simply feral billy goats due to the fact that it allowed me to repeat tests over and over in a semi controlled environment- close range bush hunting where the abundance of game allowed me to take identical shots throughout a series of gullies. Average body weights for these animals was 50kg (110lb) and all animals were shot when relaxed, none were adrenalised before the shot.
The projectile used in the experiment was the Speer 400 grain flat soft point, a very good allrounder for a huge variety of game including light/ lean game up to bodyweights of around 320kg (700lb). What made this experiment interesting is that animals were taken with the Speer bullet fired backwards as well as forwards. Kids, don't try this at home. While the Speer is one of the few projectiles which already offers a generously wide/ flat meplat, firing it backwards offered the maximum width meplat possible for the .45-70. The rifle (a custom bolt action) was also tested for accuracy and surprisingly, the backwards Speer grouped well and showed no signs of instabilty when observing the uniformity of bullet holes through paper.

The purpose of these experiments was really to determine speed of killing. In recent years there has been a lot of argument throught various public hunting forums as to the effectiveness of a wide flat meplat bullet travelling at low velocity for use on dangerous game in comparison to both a low velocity expanding projectile and at the other extreme, a high velocity big bore such as the .460 Weatherby. Each of these has its strengths and weaknesses. The most important factor is that the hunter be provided with correct information as to what to expect when each load is used on game.
For my own part, I much prefer the extremes, using a high velocity big bore. I am not so much a fan of clean but slow kills, regardless of deep penetration. I have used the .45-70 and the 400 grain Speer to take wild cattle but much prefer something a whole bunch faster. High velocity and careful shot placement gives me great satisfaction but I am aalso aware that penetraion may be sacrificed on angling shots. For others, a classic big bore cartridge from yester year is far more thrilling to use than my latest ten million magnum. Variety is certainly the spice of life.
As for wide, flat metplats in small bores, the greatest problem with wide metplats in the small bores is that ballistic co-efficients are greatly reduced, especially with regard to wind drift. Such changes tend to handicapp otherwise flat shooting cartridges with the negatives outweighing any other benefits. Secondly, most small bores have high velocity in their favor, a major proponant in wide wound channel creation negating any need for increased performance. Perhaps the only advantage of using wide metplat non expanding projectiles in high velocity small bores would be in the design of full metal jacket projectiles in 7mm and .30 calibre for follow up shots on large game. In military ammunition, a small flat point rather than a fully pointed FMJ jacket does make a notable difference in stopping power, the ramifications are obvious.
Some examples of flat metplats disscussed throughout the small bore texts of the book Hunting cartridges of the World include- the Norma Vulcan in 6.5mm, 7mm and .30 calibre along with several brands of flat point .30-30 bullets. Of these, the Vulcan in all calibres and the .30-30 Sierra projectiles showed very good results.
Wide metplats really start to become more and more useful in the .358" calibre and upwards. Many medium bores are utilised at limited ranges of up to 200 to 250 yards and in such cases, the poor BC's created by wide metplats is of little handicap. By simply changing from a pointed soft point to a round nose soft point, many cartridges become fast killers on light or lean game where before the bullet may have carried too much momentum, failing to impart its energy. Results of the change in bullet style in the medium bores are often dramatic on all manner of game. That said, only a very few, mostly custom bullet makers, offer true flat point medium bore projectiles. Most manufacturers offer round nose bullets, nevertheless, the Woodleigh Welcore, mentioned throughout the medium bore texts, is a good examples of a fast killing round nose bullet in comparison to its pointed counterpart.
As discussed, Elmer Keith was one of the very few hunter/ researchers that experimented with wide metplats in large calibres. Keith's work revolved around experiments in the calibres .38 (.357"), .44 (.430") and .45 (.451") with non expanding bullets. Very few others have experimented with big bore wide metplats, most notably Garret Cartridges inc, experimenting with both .430" and .458" calibre bullets while Lyman, Lee and RCBS offer Keith style bullet moulds. Speer are the only manufacturer to offer a wide metplat jacketed soft point bullet which comes in the form of the .45-70 400 grain jacketed flat point. Apart from this, the market remains open to the development of wide, flat metplat expanding soft nose bullets.

Disclaimer/ WARNING: The views and opinions expressed in this article are solely those of the author and are not endorsed by any manufacturers. Terminal Ballistics Research and the author take no responsibility for the use or misuse of any views, opinions or information expressed in this article.


Last edited by 5150; 10-30-2008 at 07:55 AM.
  #10  
Old 10-30-2008, 10:23 AM
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I must admit that I am somewhat at loss over some of the statements made in this thread. It seema at first that it was putting down large mepalt (Meplat Area) bullets? Then it talked about feeding problems? Then it seems that it was talking about weight forward bullets (large meplat?) not being accurate. Then it talks about weight foward bullet penetrating on tissue better a staright path. It also seem BC used at times instead of SD? Maybe I am missing something when I see statemnts made in the past, now being used by another source.
It seems to me that the loss of a little accuracy to get a better perorming bullet design is the way to go....with ranges the hard cast bullets were designed to be used in.
I just have not seen all this bullet instability spoken of with large meplat bullets...but I have seen first hand the tissue damage they do. Just for the public record...what is the % relationship of meplat (or whtaever you want to call it) and the diameter of the said perfect bullet? And what actual tests have been done to prove that point?....more speculation indeed? And...at what % meplat does this instability come into play....vs what velocity and twist barrel.....ergo loses gyro stability? And, just where are the facts that state a 70% (or whatever) is the perfect meplat %?
I think when statements are written in stone..we should see for ourselves how that data was collected....otherwise it is pure speculation.
I started shooting cast bullets at game in 1956...and saw game run off when hit right with a non-expanding small meplat cast bullet! No problem if you were in sections out west where you could see where game finally fall. Those that have read Keiths books, know he even gave some yardage that the game went before it fell....not good at all in dense cover.
Regards, James
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:17 PM
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My thoughts exactly James. Good points. When I first started hunting with handguns in the early 60's I found that cast killed black bear and deer much better than the jacketed bullets of the time. Never went back and killed lots of game with the 41 and 44 magnums using Kieth style hardcast. All the verbage above sure lost me.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:45 PM
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Well, I will throw some simple statements into the fire!
(1) Tissue Damage is a product of Meplat Area and Velocity.
(2) Penetration is a product of Sectional Density and Velocity.
Beyond that it is talioring the load/bullet to the gun and impact distance.
For us, that will what the customer expects and is satisfied with.
Regards, James
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:57 PM
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I was trying to put on the table the general opinion of the experts in the field and their conclusions as to meplat vs other.
I tend to be in the Nathan Foster camp in this opinion.
Wide meplats have a place but they are not any more effective and maybe less so in regards to quik kill than a conventional rifle round when longer distance to target is involved.
Alot of people are sted fast stuck on wider meplat is the only way to go on this thred. Just some thoughts from another side.
Just trying to gather more opinion on it. Not trying to discredit anybody.

Last edited by 5150; 10-30-2008 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:42 AM
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If we go back to the very first post and the opening statement, it appears that the poster is saying that some ammo makers are flying false colors. He basically says that they are pushing big meplats that do not perform as stated.
Npw...I think we all have agreed for some time that there ia a place for expanding jacketed bullets and a place for non-expanding hard cast bullets...haven't we?
I, for one, have said many times that I thought the place for hard cast with big meplats (Meplat Area) starts around a bulet diameter of .357" and goes up....but that again is a general rule based on my use.
It seems to me that the Meplat Area comes into play with hard cast at velcities below...say, 1800'/" and down. but, must be balanced with a high Sectional Density bullet.
What some seem to miss, is an expanded jacketed bullet has a Meplat Area as it's realtionship to Velocity....is the same as a non-expanded hard cast's Meplat Area.
For some unknown reason this thing get polarized into two mindsets....when really the principles appy to both jacketed bullet and hard cast.,,,as far as Meplat Area (expanded or not)
No one seems to want to say (write it in stone) just what and why is the ideal meplat diameter in a non-expanding bullet...that's simple because no one knows for sure! When in doubt, I lean toward the largest available meplat in hard cast. Of course, this has to take into consideration the gun the bullet is used in as far as feeding. It puzzles me when someone says 73% meplat is perfect but an 80% is not?...or whatever! Coming back to my statement:
Penetration is a product of Sectional Denisty and Velocity. Maybe I should have said retained Sectional Density when refering to an expanded bullet. We also seem to confuse BC with SD. BC is a form factor relating to retained velocity...and has nothing to do with bulllet performace after impact...unless one wants to discuss how a high BC bullet expands better/worse...but that a factor of bullet constuction.
The issue has been clouded with speculation. There is a relative use of various bullet designs all related to the range, size of the game, and type of cover.
These are just some general comments based on use....however I am still wrapped up in trying to understand this "Shock" thing and what it has been industy standard to use a formula for a vertical stem engine to compare a loads performance. To me it looks like something as simple as pressure developed by the bullet design on living tssue is the cause of the kill. Push the presuure high enough and it destroys the fibers in tissue...and atomizes the water in tissue...ergo blood mist and what appears as stearm sometimes. Which leads right abck to Meplat Area and Velocity. The more surface area it has (expanded or not) the more water is moved...simple! And we need to consider the total volume of tissue damage...short and wide vs long and deep.
And...there is a balance point somewhere that Meplat Area (expanded or not), Sectional Density, and Velocity come together as an ideal for the specific hunting situation. What this balance is...can not be calculated, but rather observed over a long period of kills. All of this does not matter what we think, but rather what the shooter/hunter thinks!
Regards, James
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Last edited by James Gates; 10-31-2008 at 12:46 AM.
  #15  
Old 10-31-2008, 06:50 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 429
For me a large caliber handgun at close range is a great place for a wide meplat over an expanding HP given one is tolerant of big recoil.
I would start my choice in the 40 caliber range and up with a heavy slow cast bullet.
But that is the limit by which I would call them as good or better than a modern HP or SP bullet.
It has been stated in this forum that any cast wide meplat bullet is better than other bullets in regards to effectivness period.
The previous post I put in are not my words but the words of noted experts in this field and I merly wanted to put out the opinions of those people as I believe regardless if they are for or against they are factual test findings and should be at least worth a read.
Merly opinion with some good testing to back it up. "not just words"


Well, I will throw some simple statements into the fire!
(1) Tissue Damage is a product of Meplat Area and Velocity.
(2) Penetration is a product of Sectional Density and Velocity.
Beyond that it is talioring the load/bullet to the gun and impact distance.
For us, that will what the customer expects and is satisfied with.
Regards, James


It has been proven that a .556 m193 ball bullet traveling at 2700fps or greater will do more tissue damage by volume or otherwise than any other bullet on the market of equal caliber and even most wide meplat bullets on the market of larger caliber.. Would I use .556 for a buffalo, no. but in regards to human targets or even deer sized game it will do more damage.
Not a mechanism of wide meplat, but fragmentation and velocity. Sorry not all theorys posted hold water as expressed by others here.
Terminal ballistics of how a bullet affects tissue is really pretty simple. Bullet contacts tissue then depending upon velocity, bullet design and comformation of materal contacted bullet make a hole.
Not all bullets are created equal for sure but to me a wide meplat bullet as previously stated is as good or not as any other well disigned hp or sp on the market. at close range..

Last edited by 5150; 10-31-2008 at 07:04 AM.
  #16  
Old 10-31-2008, 08:06 AM
faucettb's Avatar
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Peck, Idaho
Posts: 12,620
My question then is why is the military looking for something else? These 5.56 projectiles are not finding a lot of folks that are happy with them in the middle East. The lack of performance has been very well documented.

I think this thread has about gone on as long as necessary. Thread locked.
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