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  #1  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:08 AM
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H110/W296 same load data?


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I know from the post's that H110 and W296 are the same or very similar but can you use the same load data from one to the other? I found a load that I like the use's W296 but I already have lots of H110. I would appreciate everyone's advice.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:36 AM
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In general, yes. It's when we start substituting OTHER components as well that we can get into difficulty.

For example, we find a load of 12.0 grains of H110 with a 137-gr Acme bullet, but use W296 with a 138-gr Apex bullet. That isn't necessarily safe.

There are also the usual slight variations lot-to-lot. If your loads are near maximum (and ALL published loads with H110/W296 are near max!) then you'd be wise to follow their stern advice about reducing and working back up. Note that these two can be touchy about reduced loads. They recommend no more than two to three percent reduction from their published loads.
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:31 PM
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Yup.
I use the powders equally. Doesn't mean you should, but it is fairly common practice as far as i can tell.

Good bit of info there on not reducing H110 or W296. Both can be explosive if you do. I've always considered that H110 and W296 were good case fillers. I don't think I can damage my Ruger Bisley with any max load of H110 or W296. The only way to destroy the gun with those powders is to use a reduced load, whould would literally blow the gun to pieces.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:35 PM
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Another thing:

my good friend once did soem in depth testing,m and found (at least 7 years ago) that W296 was more stable than H110 when getting to the point of compression. Although not technicly compressed, his loads required a tough of oomph during that last part of bullet seating. The W296 showed more consistancy in velocity than the H110.

This all may have changed by now though. Lot numbers may have played a part as well.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skligmund View Post
. . . Good bit of info there on not reducing H110 or W296. Both can be explosive if you do. . .
Not exactly. It is no different from any other powder in terms of the risk of detonation. The problem is weak ignition. Flame doesn't spread easily between the fine grains of this powder, so a lot of it is still not lit when the bullet starts to move. Underloaded, the resulting reduction in start pressure can allow the round to squib out when fired in a revolver (where most of it is used). This is because the pressure is still low when the bullet base exits the chamber throat and exposes the barrel/cylinder gap. This can result in the low starting pressure blowing its gas out through that gap, dropping pressure enough to burn the lit powder out without lighting the unburned powder. In effect, the load extinguishes. This leaves a bullet stuck in the barrel. If the next shot does not also squib out, then you can have a high pressure "event". It is a particular concern when firing double-action at steel or bowling pins or another fast target, because you might go from one round to the next too fast to realize the squib didn't feel right.

A number of people go ahead and reduce loads of this powder in rifles and single shot handguns where there is no barrel cylinder gap. I am not advising you to, since the manufacturer's warnings don't make the distinction, but just letting you know it is done.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:34 PM
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Nick is right, the detonation myth is just that... you can't have more energy from a lesser amount of starting material, unless you've managed to defy the laws of thermodynamics.
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:14 PM
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Both of these powders need to be lit up under "just right" conditions to get the most from them. Stick with the makers data and prep your cases well and they work well.

Case preperation is the "key" to making it work. All the same. Bullet fit and crimp very important.

I love the stuff for "magnum" speeds. Hate it for experimenting. Not much room to play with.

Cheezywan
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2009, 05:25 AM
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Let's clear up a few things about WW296 and H110. First of all H110 is one of the WW296 powders. When Ball powder is made..it turns out with somewhat different burning rates. When WW296 is packed for reloader sales, it is one burning rate that has been established. WW 296 sold to Hodgdon,with various burning speeds, it is mixed by Hodgdon and may vary lot to lot.
In most cases this is not a problem, but one can get a batch that is hotter than the standard WW296. I have been told that the H110 sold today is made for Hodgdon and is one burning rate, but I can't back that.
To be on the safe side when loading near max charges, I have stayed with WW296 as packed.
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2009, 06:23 AM
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Thanks for the input guy's, I think I'll just stick with the tried and true. One thing Rocky brought up really rings true though, Hodgdons load data for the 500 Smith using a 350gr XTP starts at 39.0 gr. Hornady's manual starts well below that so that puts Hodgdon's start data near max. That always puzzled me but after reading your comments now I see why.
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2009, 06:32 AM
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James, Chris Hodgdon tells me that Hodgdon does not re-blend powders. It is simply put into their own containers as is. What you are seeing is the normal 3% lot-lot variation - and is why Hodgdon says to not reduce H110 loads by more than 3%.
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  #11  
Old 02-07-2009, 12:08 PM
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Ive had squibbs with a 125 gr bullet in the 357 mag. Used the starting load of WW296 in a manual. I was shooting on an indoor range. Sounds like a hissing noise and then the bullet hit the metal backstop with a clank. Sounded like someone threw it downrange. Since it didnt stick in the barrel, I shot 2 more times with the same result. Pulled the rest of them down. Found that I had to load up to within 1/2 grain of the maximum in order to get all rounds to fire. Probably best to use a faster powder for the lighter bullets in the 357 mag. I ended up using Blue Dot.
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2009, 06:39 PM
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Blue dot is my go to powder for lighter bullets in the .357 Mag, Herco works well too for slightly lighter loads.
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2009, 09:30 PM
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296/H110 is a great .44 mag powder. The .357 has not given me specific problems with it, but you need a truly firm crimp and magnum primers. A Hodgdon tech told me it was actually Hodgdon that came out with H110 first. Winchester followed suit, buying it from the same source (St. Marks Powder, I believe, which is owned by General Dynamics and makes military powders). It is blended by St. Marks to attempt a consistent burning rate, put into drums and sold to both powder brands. Since Hodgdon now distributes Winchester, as well, and has combined the load data, you can be pretty sure they are identical, aside from lot variance.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2009, 12:35 PM
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I use H110 with 180 grain Cast Performance WFNGCs in my 357 and standard Remington small pistol primers and a standard roll crimp. I won't post my load, but its hot enough that I only use new brass with it. It pushes that 180 at almost 1300 FPS from a 6" barrel.
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