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  #1  
Old 05-16-2009, 12:41 PM
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I was in a shop this morning looking for dies and powder,I overheard a fellow who said he and his brother were avid shooters and reloaders.He said his brother told him of something that was trying to get passed that the government wanted some kind of additive, put in powder that would shorten the life of the powder so loaded ammo could not be stockpiled for over a certain length of time. Now has anyone heard of such a thing,or was this just another case of hysteria.............?
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  #2  
Old 05-16-2009, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by purpledragon View Post
just another case of hysteria.............?
YES

This and the self destructing primers began just after Clinton was elected the first time and they just won't go away.
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  #3  
Old 05-16-2009, 07:48 PM
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Tell him it won't work if he wraps the powder canisters in tinfoil

Sorry, I couldn't resist!!!
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  #4  
Old 05-16-2009, 08:43 PM
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Wink

Boy I'm glad to hear about the tinfoil deal.I have a huge commercial roll of the stuff.Been pulling foil off it for years and have plenty left.
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  #5  
Old 05-16-2009, 09:12 PM
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Can you spare some for a fellow shooter? I've tinfoiled everything in my house and they won't sell me anymore, they are even rationing it and I've seen it going for $50 a roll now....I don't want to be left out!!!
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  #6  
Old 05-16-2009, 10:43 PM
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and make sure to coat the inside of your favorite hat with it so the Aliens cant read your mind.
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2009, 04:18 AM
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"the government wanted some kind of additive, put in powder that would shorten the life of the powder so loaded ammo could not be stockpiled for over a certain length of time. Now has anyone heard of such a thing,or was this just another case of hysteria.............?"

It is, in fact, something liberal mush minds have sought in the past. And liberals, being delusional, will keep pursueing it but I doubt it will ever pass and, thechnically, it can't be made to work anyway.

If it could, consider that ammo made from such components would have a shelf life. There is no way for anyone to know when it's dead, if a cop depended on some of it for his life he could easily die.

Liberals do care - a little - about some cops even tho they don't give a damp about the rest of us being able to defend ourselves from some felon who is most likely to vote for liberal policians!
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:58 PM
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smokinfz1, I got just a plain tin foil hat made with a point on it that I wear so they can't read mine either,since I was abducted by them I never know when they'll be back. I was asking a serious question I thought,as you never know what our gov. is working on next to throw a stick in our spokes.
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2009, 08:36 PM
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you guys all forgot the tell him he needs to GROUND the tinfoil ......
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  #10  
Old 05-17-2009, 09:21 PM
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On more serious note, there have been attempts to add taggants to gunpowder and explosives so they can be traced to the distributorship and narrow their list of suspects to just a few thousands. I don't know what the state of affairs with that is? When 60 minutes did a piece on it maybe 20 years ago, they reported that the military had refused to have it included in their powder, plus they (50 minutes, not the military) had an example of an explosives plant that had blown up when the taggants were added to a lot. It caused spontaneous heating when they mixed in in and they couldn't control it, so they evacuated and shortly thereafter she went up.

I thought of that because it is an additive the government has tried to push off on gunpowder in the past, and I wondered if someone had confused that memory with the short shelf life primer chemistry rumor from the early Clinton administration and combined them?

It is interesting to note that the early non-corrosive primers from, IIRC, the late 1920's, revived the use of fulminate of mercury which Hatcher said breaks down pretty easily and often made primers useless in just a year or so. So we've had that kind and are now rid of them. We may have to thank the EPA for preventing its return, but more likely no such thing has been attempted exactly for the reason Ranger335V mentioned: that it would take just one officer loosing his life to an expired dud for the resulting lawsuit to take the company out of business. That could happen easily because breakdown is temperature dependent, and if they make a primer that breaks down in a year at 68F, but the officer leaves the ammo in the trunk of his patrol car in Pheonix in the summer, his primers might only last two months.

And the military will have nothing to do with such primers. They want to be able to stockpile ammo, and the police won't want to be limited to buying Hague Convention compliant military ammo to replace their various commercial purchases.

As to powder, when it breaks down it makes acids. If you made one that self-destructed and it did so right in the case, the chances of weakening the case and causing a case rupture on firing would, again, open the powder company up to law suits. Seems unlikely to happen.
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  #11  
Old 05-18-2009, 10:41 AM
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Ya just try to find tin foil on the shelf it's all gone Reynolds sent a replay to my email, they are working 24-7 to get there supply built up.

Just wondering if used tin foil will work wife and I ate out last night had a baked potato made her fold it up and take it home on our way out we scored 2 other tables.

The rumors are starting to get out of hand next we will here about bullets that melt after 2 years.
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2009, 12:25 PM
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If you hit Goodwill, you can usually find the old wire mesh spaghetti strainers. Try to find one that has the two opposing handles. It's great to affix a chin strap. Or even better are the smaller ones with a single handle. they conceal nicely under a ball cap. Brain waves can be controlled in the same fashion as radio waves and all you need is a metallic mesh of any kind to stop the emanations, but I use stainless. The steel mesh leaves rust stripes and everyone knows about those annoying green stripes from the copper and brass.

Last edited by backwoods; 05-18-2009 at 01:06 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2009, 12:53 PM
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In place of a ground wire, you can take a battery, tie the positive to your head gear and run the negative wire to your front pocket where you must keep the bare wire end between index and thumb fingers, only removing your hand to lick your two fingers once every 3.5 minutes.
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  #14  
Old 05-27-2009, 07:23 PM
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Thanks UncleNick for a serious response!!!! nobody likes a S - - - - - - s.They were usually the ones who got picked on in school and did nothing about it.
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  #15  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:01 PM
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Just info you guys ALL explosives Manufactured in the USA have what is called tags in them! So they can be Identified for Criminal investigations! Been that way since the Mid 80's! They have even put them into fertilizers since OK bombing!
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Last edited by Gunnut45/454; 05-28-2009 at 01:05 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:26 PM
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I didn't realize they'd done more than talk about it? How about military stuff? Have they changed their minds?

Later,

Nope. Someone's misinformed you. From a 2006 report on the subject by The Institute of Makers of Explosives:
IME has worked closely with both the ATF and NAS to insure they have the industry data that they require. The
NAS report, completed and issued in March 1998, concluded:

“At today’s level of threat, it is not appropriate to require commercial explosives to contain identification
taggants … All of the taggant technologies currently available raise concerns about long-range
environmental consequences, effectiveness in law enforcement, safety issues, and costs.”

The ATF issued an Interim report in March 1998 and also concluded:

“At this stage of the Study it is clear that … there are remaining complexities surrounding the issue. Any
effort which is to have a measurable impact on the prevention and investigation of bombing incidents must
be an integrated one, involving the effective regulation of explosives and explosive materials, the effective
enforcement of those regulations, and the effective application of cutting edge technologies.”

IME’s position is consistent with these findings:

• Less than 1 percent of the bombings in the United States involve commercially manufactured high
explosives.

• Placing identification taggants in commercially manufactured high explosives is only minimally beneficial
to law enforcement and in many cases may complicate the investigation and prosecution of a bombing.

• Countries which have faced real terrorism problems, such as Israel, Ireland, Germany, Japan, and Great
Britain, have not adopted a taggant program and do not intend to do so.

• The substantial costs associated with placing taggants in commercially manufactured high explosives are
not justified by the minimal benefits.
Recommendation: Any mandate for the addition of identification taggants must be based on sound science and
cost-benefit analysis. It is not in the best interest of the industry, public, the environment, or law enforcement to
mandate identification taggants in commercial explosives at this time.

January 2006
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Last edited by unclenick; 05-28-2009 at 01:33 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:29 PM
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Well, kinda, sorta.

The taggant included in all explosives is a detection taggant, used to detect the presence of explosives. It is primarily for commercial aviation, and can be detected by dogs or machines.

The other type of taggant, a so-called ID taggant, is to help identify the source of an explosive, presumably in police invesitigation work. For now, the only country where it is used is Switzerland.

From what I can gather, NEITHER type is added to smokeless powder.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:36 PM
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And that report I cited says the dection taggants are only mandated for plastic explosives if I read it right. Here's the link:

http://www.ime.org/files/Issue%20Briefs/Taggants%20In%20Explosives.pdf
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:40 PM
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Maybe for explosives - don't think so for smokless gun powder, other than the red/green/blue dot tags in the shotgun powders. If there is, I haven't noticed any in the many other types of powders in my storage.
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  #20  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:41 PM
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I should have included that, Nick. Thanks.

That's true, taggants are only required or needed for plastic explosives. All others are detectable without taggants. And we are only talking high explosives, NOT propellants like smokeless powder.
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