Newbie question on Lee's Classic w/double disc kit

2shotal · #1 06-17-2009, 11:14 AM

Hi:

I’m a newbie to reloading and have been doing a lot of research lately on the Lee Classic Turret with the Auto Disk Pro Measure and associated diskc kits. The Lee Modern Reloading manual indicates that with the double disc kit, you can reload up to .308 rifle calibers.

I have a .270 which according to Lee’s manual, the case has a total useful capacity of 4.24 CCs. The manual also states that: “usually, the most accurate and highest velocity load for every bullet weight is a charge that fills or nearly fills the case while producing a high safe pressure”.

Assuming I want to use IMR 4064 which according to Lee’s table has a Volume Measure Density (VMD) of 0.0745 and recommends a START load of 42.9 grains with a MAX of 48.0 grains, I would not reach anywhere near the MAX nor be close to the full case capacity of 4.24CCs using the double disc kit. I make this statement on the basis of the following calculations:

Start 42.9 grains = 3.19 CCs (42.9 x 0.0745), and the MAX 48.0 grains = 3.57 CCs (48.0 x 0.0745). The largest cavity of each disc set has 1.57 CCs of capacity resulting in 21.07 (1.57 / 0.0745) grains. Using the largest disc cavity of 1.57 CCs in each of the two disc kits, I would get a max of 42.14 grains or 3.139 CCs (42.14 x 0.0745). The results indicate that 42.14 grains is no way near the MAX, and 3.139 CCs is only 74.03% of total case capacity of 4.24 CCs.

My first question is, are my calculations above correct – I’m I missing something? What are my alternatives (other than looking for a powder that has a higher VMD)?

While on the subject of alternatives, during my research I came across the following writing by a user and I quote:

“I have discovered something amazing!!!! With the addition of a second double stack kit and a sharp razor knife and steady hand to cut off the nubbins flush on one side of the plastic risers it is possible to !!! TRIPLE STACK !!!. I haven’t tried a quad. stack yet, but I see no reason why you couldn’t pull that off as well. There are two ways to cut off the nubbins flush on one side. One is the wrong way and removes only the part of the nubbin that sticks out. The correct way removes the whole nubbin. Take a close look at the risers and how they have a lap over each other for a triple stack arrangement and you will see what I’m talking about. Then all you need is some longer 6-32 threaded screws (3” worked nicely) from the hardware store and you’ve got a triple stack with triple capacity !!!! That’s enough capacity to handle anything up to and slightly beyond the 45-70 including some of the smaller capacity belted magnum cartridges !!!!”

My second question is has anyone tried above alternative? Does it work? Is it safe?

I thank you in advance for any info you can provide.

unclenick · #2 06-17-2009, 12:52 PM

I don't have that measure, but your calculations appear correct. My can of IMR 4064 is a little less dense (0.069 or 0.070 VMD if I don't shake it or pack it). I don't know what bullet you are trying to use? In the .270 with 130 grain bullets, it looks to me as if you will get more velocity and better case filling out of H4350. Your choice may be better for lighter bullets?

I think, in your shoes, rather than get the press in a kit with the Auto-disc measure, which is really geared more toward volume pistol loading, I would get the press separately and buy the Lee Perfect measure (Lee #90058) and its optional Universal Charging Die (#90273), that will operate it automatically for you. It has continuously adjustable capacity calibrated directly in CC's and has more than enough capacity for your purposes (10 CC's, IIRC?). Get a scale so you have a way to be certain of the charge weight you are throwing. Different lots of powder and powder that has been shaken a lot in transport can exhibit density differences.

sionaprhys · #3 06-17-2009, 12:59 PM

Instead of stacking more disks, just set your double disk to half the desired powder charge and charge the case twice. Check your setting with a powder scale. Visually check the cases for light or heavy charges before seating a bullet.

unclenick · #4 06-17-2009, 01:16 PM

An extra handle stroke? What about carpel tunnel?

sionaprhys · #5 06-17-2009, 01:19 PM

cAaaarRppall TUnnell? wwwWwhaaatTTT’sss TTttHHHaaatt??? (Ouch.)

bsn · #6 06-18-2009, 03:37 AM

The Lee disc kit is not real accurate, it works well in pistol calibers but in rifle calibers the perfect powder mesure is much better suited.

2shotal · #7 06-18-2009, 04:42 AM

Thanks to all for the words of wisdom. I considered the Perfect Powder and Universal Charge die and I contacted Lee and this is what they said, and I quote: "the universal charge die and perfect powder measure could be used onthe turret press, but it wouldn't be fully automatic. You would have to remember to swing the powder measure lever back down to refill the metering chamber (which would be all to easy to forget) after the powder charge was dropped into the case".

I have received suggestions to use the Lyman 55 with its Lyman Universal Chargin Die or the RCBS Uniflow. I guess the final decision will be based on which one works best with the Lee Classic Turret system.

As to the bullet for the .270, I plan to use Remington's 130 GR SP. As to the IMR 4064 I just used that powder to illustrate my calculations. I have read in other forums that it is not all that great. Thanks for the tip on the H4350, I'll look into it.

Regardless of which measure system I will use, I also intend to double check the loads by weighting them (have two scales).

As to the double stacking, I was just curious if anyone has done this, and more important, would it be safe.

unclenick · #8 06-18-2009, 05:40 AM

Yeah, there's always a fly in the ointment, but here's the thing: Most rifle loading requires you to stop and trim and maybe anneal cases periodically, or to stop to remove military crimps or to clean off sizing lube and whatnot. So progressive loading and turret loading aren't 100% suited to rifle cartridge loading anyway. I use the Forster Co-ax most of the time for that reason, figuring I'll want to decap (separate Lee universal decapping die) and clean before sizing anyway. I also usually stop after sizing for a quick additional tumble in plain corncob to get lube off the cases. You don't have to do that, but I've always been leery of letting it get into my rifle chambers.

The Forster's quick change die system makes up for some of the speed difference from turret loading, though it is still batch processing. I usually prime accuracy loads with a Markel hand tool, and if the rounds are for a gas gun I use the Co-ax press's priming station which forces a guarateed 0.004" below flush primer to guard against slam fires. I don't know of any other priming tool that has that feature? The Co-ax press also floats its dies just enough to let them self-align with the cases for maximum concentricity with the dies.

I'm not saying your choice of the Lee Classic turret is bad, but just that if pistol isn't your main loading activity and you are looking at having to buy a different measure or make other special adjustments anyway, you might want to consider the Co-ax press? I own two Dillons, but my Co-ax press ends up doing almost all the rifle loading. It is also quick and easy for turning out just a handful of test loads, since the dies only have to be set up once, then just pop in and out. I like the thing a lot.

Huntducks · #9 06-18-2009, 09:40 AM

270 = H-4831 and a 130gr bullet.

quit messing around with a substandard powder measure and buy a Redding.

UnCruel · #10 06-18-2009, 01:10 PM

I had the Perfect Powder Measure mounted on my Lee turret press, but I just didn't like it, because it wasn't very smooth. The kit I used included a little brass chain to return the lever of the powder measure on the return stroke. This chain frequently broke. If Lee made a version of the Perfect Powder Measure which had a spring return like the Auto Disc, that would be just the ticket.