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  #1  
Old 10-25-2009, 04:06 PM
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Trim die...30-06 to 358 Win


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ANyone have experience making 358 Win brass from 30-06 brass w/ a trim die?

I have beaucoup military 30-06 brass and I can't seem to find any 358 Win at a decent price. Midway has a Redding trim die for 358 Win, but cutting down 30-06 cases might be more work than it's worth when considering the tools needed.

Appreciate any ideas.
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2009, 05:23 PM
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Not with .358 but with a few others, .243, .308, .22-250. Trim dies are fine tools.
It's possible, even likely, you will also need to turn the necks to thin them after reforming. And you WILL need to anneal the necks also or the finished necks will quickly split on you.
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2009, 07:01 PM
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There are two 307 threads which have pictures of forming cases and the 308 Marlin thread has pictures.
The first thread has some pictures in post 37. I believe the 307 thread has some pictures of 356 and 307 cases side by side formed from 30-06 and 444 cases.

I found 30-06 cases generally require neck turning or inside reaming to thin the necks unless your throat is generous.
The 270 cases seemed to be stronger or I should say tougher than the 30-06 cases. The 270 is harder to form but the cases lasted longer without annealing.
If I annealed the cases they lasted fine.
As said the redding form-trim dies are great tools.
I use a hacksaw on the long cases but a cut off wheel would be nicer.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....orm+die&page=2

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....light=form+die

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....light=form+die
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  #4  
Old 10-26-2009, 03:46 AM
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Leverite,

Lost my mind last night and could not remember your having a 358 Winchester. I remember our discussions of the 356.

As you may have seen by now post 12 in this thread has the picture of the dies and the form steps for 444 to 356 and 307.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....307+winchester

As I said when forming cases from 30-06 and 270 brass the cases get pretty thick below the shoulder and when you run them through the form-trim die and cut them off you will probably have to inside ream or outside turn them to thin the necks.
Seattleloader has posted pictures of his hand neck turner and with the case chucked in a drill that is probably the easiest way to go.
I use the inside ream on my Forster trimmer because I want to remove the doughnut from the base of the shoulder if one has been formed.
I have been shooting the Hornady LeveRevolution bullets in the 356 with the case timed back. I am about to start a comparison between the 356 and 358 Model 94BB and the Savage Model 99 to compare the Hornady bullet with the Sierra 225 grain boattail spitzer. The sierra bullet is a good one but I dont believe it open up quickly enough for our light bodied deer.
I am hoping the Hornady bullet with its plastic tip will open up a bit quicker on our light framed critters.
The LeveRevolution bullet in the 308ME certainly opens up quickly and creates quite an entrance wound. The Hornady bullet seems to hold together pretty well and does not leave a lead trail through the body cavity.
I may shoot a few of these into water to have a look at how they are constructed.
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2009, 04:33 AM
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It would be cheaper just to neck-up .308 brass to .358.
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2009, 04:44 AM
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leaveright, in the world of forming first and firing second going from 308 W to 358 Winchester is a *foot note '4', meaning if you have a RCBS 308 sizer die manufactured after May of 1983 all that is required is sizing the case with the 358 (#098632 expander recapping unit can be ordered).

If I was forming 358 W from 30/06 I would use a 308 trim/form die first then form to 358 W, hack saw first then file.

.481 must be trimmed from the 30/06 case, if a hack saw is used stock removal is fast, then use a file to finish before lowering the ram after forming. Trimming? .

.481 from each case and if 100 cases are formed, that is 48.1 inches of trimming, it takes more time to pick up the hack saw than it takes for the saw to remove the the brass. Avoid running the blade of the saw against the top of the die,

RCBS sells a 'G' group die set for about $85.00 that forms 358 W from 30/06 #58278, again I have the 308 W form/trim die, a 358 W trim/form die would prevent the case from being necked down to 308 first then to up 358 W

F. Guffey
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2009, 04:59 AM
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If you have a 358 W sizer die, foot note #4 means forming the 358 W from 308 is a matter of having a tapered neck expander, again I would not use 30/06, if I did not have 308 W I would form to 308 W first then to 358 W.

Sorry about that,

F. Guffey
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2009, 05:45 AM
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"I use a hacksaw on the long cases but a cut off wheel would be nicer."

If you mean a grinder type cut-off wheel, don't do that! A hacksaw and file won't touch the trim die due to it's hardness BUT a grinder sure will!


leverfite: "I have beaucoup military 30-06 brass and I can't seem to find any 358 Win at a decent price."

For what you want to do, just use the .358 trim die. Saw/file the excess length off and run the trimmed cases through your .358 FL sizer. Seat a bullet (in an empty case) so the base is at the neck to shoulder juncture and mike the diameter of the loaded neck. If it's larger than SAAMI max diameter turn them down the needed amount. Reaming will certainly thin them but why waste a chance to actually make the neck thickness more consistant as well as smaller?

The Forster hand operated neck turner (HOT-100) has the best features at a reasonable price of any I am aware of. MidwayUSA has them.

If you have a Lee case trimer and lock stud you can chuck the cases in a slow turning drill (battery type) and easily turn necks in any hand turner.

Last edited by ranger335v; 10-26-2009 at 05:49 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:04 AM
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Thanks all...great info.

Think I'll go w/ necking up 308 for now.
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:13 AM
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I've been shooting a .358 win for over 15 years and I always use 308 cases. Just lube the inside of the necks well and run the 308 cases thru the sizing die. Be careful not to set the shoulder back or you will get a headspace issue. Get a Wilson's cartridge gauge and it will keep you out of trouble with little fuss.


30-06 cases neck up very easily to 35 Whelen. I also have one of those, maybe you need one too. LOL.
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2009, 07:32 AM
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Necking up the 308 to 358 will shorten the case .030 thousands, there is .001 thousands difference between the 308 and 358 W from the head of the case to the shoulder so if the die is 'screwed down' 1/8 turn the shoulder will not be moved back and have no way of moving forward unless the 30/06 case is used, 30/06 1.948 from the head of the case to the shoulder, 358 W .1.560 from the head of the case to the shoulder, If there was an advantage to using 30/06 case it would be for control of shoulder position and case length.

F. Guffey
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsbandit View Post
I've been shooting a .358 win for over 15 years and I always use 308 cases. Just lube the inside of the necks well and run the 308 cases thru the sizing die. Be careful not to set the shoulder back or you will get a headspace issue. Get a Wilson's cartridge gauge and it will keep you out of trouble with little fuss.


30-06 cases neck up very easily to 35 Whelen. I also have one of those, maybe you need one too. LOL.
Roger on the 35 Whelen. I only have 2 right now!

I can use my old military 30-06 for 158 gr plinking loads in my 35 Whelens.

Looks like way too much work to use them for 358 Win loads.
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2009, 05:06 PM
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I tried some a while back.

They worked fine in my custom 14" T/C, but not worth a darn in my M77 Hawkeye.
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2009, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leverite View Post
Thanks all...great info.

Think I'll go w/ necking up 308 for now.
Here's a few with 358 brass FYI, I don't know if it's more than you're looking to pay, but figured I'd pass it along.

Natchez has it for $25.63/50:

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=WB&prodI D=WBWSC358U&prodTitle=Winchester%20358%20Wincheste r%20Unprimed%20Brass%2050/bag

Graf & Sons has it for $28.99/50 (which I believe includes shipping):

http://www.grafs.com/metallic/828
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2009, 10:58 AM
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Thanks,

I just ordered some once fired 308 at 18 cents per. That will work great for the 358 loads I want to put together. 158 grain plinking loads.
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