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  #1  
Old 12-19-2009, 05:46 PM
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CCI 200 primers in .243


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I don't reload for the .243 a lot but I have reloaded for it some and have never had any problems. Today I picked up a bag of new Winchester brass, full-length resized it, chamfered and deburred, and I'm having a terrible time getting my CCI 200 Large Rifle primers to seat. I've done 14 in the time that I could usually do 70 or 80. I even reamed the primer pocket a little and that didn't help. Any clue to what I'm missing here? I use a Lee auto-primer.

Also, I am going to be using Berger 80-grain bullets for the first time. If anyone has any good recipes for the Bergers I'd appreciate knowing them. Thanks, guys.
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:31 PM
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I never had that problem. Maybe it's your WInchester brass. There's been quite a bit of complaining about their quality control on the forums.

One thing though: While I haven;t measured the diameter of my Federals or Wolfs, I did measure CCI200 and Winchester LR. The WLR is smaller than CCI by about .001. The reason I measured them is because I was used to using CCI primers and one day picked up some WLRs. The Winchester primers slid into the pocket noticeably more easy than the CCI primers, prompting me to put them to the calipers.

I know that doesn;t answer your question, but it's somewhat related so maybe just file it away that CCI primers are manufactured about .001" larger than WLR primers, or....vice versa.
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Last edited by StretchNM; 12-19-2009 at 06:33 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2009, 06:40 PM
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Stretch, I suspect you are right and my first step will be to buy different primers. CCI is more commonly available in my area than anything else so that's all I have on hand at the moment. I'd not heard of any quality control problems but this is the first new brass I've bought in two years. I suppose the demand of the past 12 months has produced problems.
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2009, 05:44 AM
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I've been using CCI's for ever with no problems. I would suspect the brass.
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2009, 07:20 AM
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Hmmmm.................

If you used a pocket reamer, seems the CCI's should have seated with maybe just a little more effort than the WLR's. I have noticed a difference when seating Remington 9 1/2's, which were easier, than CCI's or Fed 210's. Been a long time since having any WLR's on hand, so can't remember how they went. Don't recall any problems, though.
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2009, 07:53 AM
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And, just to round it out, I have always found Federal primers easier to seat than CCI, which I had measured at 1/2 a thousandth bigger.

How old are the CCI's? I read on another forum that they revamped their primer making processes a couple years back, partly to get rid burrs at the lips of their primer cups that were contributing to harder seating? That is technically hearsay, but may well be true?

What are you reaming with? I use the pocket profiling tool in my L.E. Wilson trimmer when I have time, and it makes a beautifully polished primer pocket with corner radius. Everything slides in then. It's just slow going. I have also run snug commercial brass through my Dillon 600 primer pocket swaging tool to loosen it up a little. If you don't have one, but know someone who will let you use theirs, it's very quick — I've done well over 1000 cases an hour on mine, and that includes brief breaks.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2009, 08:00 AM
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Guys, good to hear from all of you.
I used an old pocket reamer. It came with the old Herter's press when my father-in-law gave me all of his reloading equipment.
By the way, Uncle Nick, do you get confused with Saint Nick this time of year? Also, I've been looking for that Freud quote that you use in your signature. I couldn't remember who used it. I'm going to have to borrow that for one of my GunHunter columns. Do you know if it appears in Freud's writings, and if so, where?
I think my next step is simply to try and find some WLR primers. As rare as primers are around here that may or may not happen.

john
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Last edited by Sunday Creek; 12-20-2009 at 02:26 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-20-2009, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunday Creek View Post
By the way, Uncle Nick, do you get confused with Saint Nick this time of year?
I'm good, but not that good.

I've looked before, and saw the Freud quote credited to his General Introduction to Psychoanalysis and left it at that. However, looking again today I see there has been some dispute about it. The dispute is outlined here. I took a look at the dispute of the citation in Wiki Quotes, and sure enough, a lot of Freud's stuff is incomplete at Google Print. For example, a search of The Standard Edition of the Complete Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud shows its index indicating "weapons" mentioned six times in chapter 5 and 3 times in chapter 15, yet a direct search of the document on the same site turns up just one reference, owing to the limited number of pages available to search. A day at the OSU library appears to be in order. I hope it doesn't end with me having to withdraw that quotation as false and finding something else to use? Meanwhile, unless you find it for yourself, I wouldn't use it just yet.
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  #9  
Old 12-20-2009, 10:40 AM
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Thought we were discussing hard seating primers?
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2009, 11:23 AM
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It's Christmas! I'll be putting some wooden shoes outside the front door in hopes that Uncle Nick will drop by! (()) (Maybe they'll get filled with primers...hehe)

Sunday Creek,
Do you have calipers where you could measure the diameter of several random CCIs? Post them on here and we can compare the diameters. It's tough to imagine a batch of CCI primers coming out too large - easier to think it might be the Winchester brass.
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  #11  
Old 12-20-2009, 02:30 PM
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Must be the brass. I picked up some WLRs this morning after church and they won't seat, either. Actually, I only tried twice. The first one seated fine, though not real easily. The second one, well, I had to use pliers and a vice-grip to get the shell out of my shell holder. Enough of this, I'm taking the brass back before I ignite one of these primers and hear Christmas bells I'm not wanting.

Oh, and Saint Uncle Nick, if you clarify the Freud quote email me at [email protected]. In one of my columns I want to discuss an email conversation with my favorite editor from years back. She edited my first novel and I really loved this lady. Nurturing but astute. Her husband is still managing editor at one of the oldest Christian magazines in the country. Anyway, I contacted this lady recently and discovered she is an ardent supporter of Obama's (they live in Chicago) and she hates the NRA and says she can't even stand to look at a picture of a handgun. Hmm. Well, I guess she stepped off my pedestal.
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Last edited by Sunday Creek; 12-20-2009 at 02:35 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2009, 03:24 PM
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If the problem just showed up I would suspect the brass before the primers. I too load the 243 Win, with Win brass and CCI 200's, and never encountered the problem. Thought it might be your primer seater, but seems you never had the problem before this batch. Wonder if the primer pockets are off-center?
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2009, 04:30 PM
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Me Too

I just started loading for the .243Win. I ordered 100pcs of new W/W .243 brass and ran them thru a full length re sizer(RCBS). I noticed that most pieces were 2.035"-2.038",somewhat shorter than I would like since I will be reloading for a single shot with a longer throat/free bore. I squared the primer pockets and deburred the flash hole. Then seated CCI 250's. They went in with the normal pressure from my primer seating tool.

Havent loaded powder and bullet yet,but all is well so far. -----pruhdlr
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:28 PM
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Sometimes you can use a shell holder that will hold the brass, but is too loose to be centering accurately. Is the shell holder the correct size?
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  #15  
Old 12-21-2009, 03:39 AM
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Yup. Shell holder was the right size. I checked it several times hoping it was something simple like that.
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  #16  
Old 12-21-2009, 05:00 AM
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for the time being i've more or less given up on winchester brass. i'm sure that they'll get their quality back in line... the last bag of 50 i had to throw out 4 or 5 pieces because of splits and/or folds in the necks, thats when i decided enough is enough...
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  #17  
Old 12-21-2009, 08:36 AM
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I hope it's not an across-the-board issue at Winchester. I just ordered (a week or so ago) 100 pieces of Winchester brass in .35 Remington. I looked and looked for Remington brass, but none of the suppliers I use had it, so....I'm hoping this incoming brass is "old" WInchester stock.
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  #18  
Old 12-21-2009, 03:10 PM
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I understand Winchester and Remington both do a lot of contracting out, nowadays. Global economy and all that. In another thread someone found bullets of a thousandth difference in diameter in different lot numbers of the same Remington bullet sold in the same Remington boxes. Upon calling Remington he was told they couldn't be expected to stock different boxes every time a bullet came in a different diameter. Uh, yeah.

So, I get my bullets from bullet makers, and pistol and straight wall rifle brass from Starline and Scharch (Top Brass), and bottleneck rifle brass remains catch as catch can. You just have to hope the next contractor isn't the one that made the .40 PMC brass in the warning post we had recently.

I hate to spend what Lapua and Norma ask, but if you want dimensional consistency first and foremost, that's been what there is to choose from. Another board member has advised that Nosler custom is quite good at half the price. I'm going to have to get some and subject it to my usual overly inquisitive gaging.
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  #19  
Old 12-27-2009, 04:26 AM
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I was fueling up in town the other day and looked over and saw one of the co-owners of the sporting goods store. I had the unused brass with me so I gave it to him. His first opinion was the primer holes were off-center. Now, one last question, I have 14 pieces of brass that are primed. They were primed with difficulty. If the primer hole is off center in these brass are they still loadable or is there a danger of excessive pressure?
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  #20  
Old 12-27-2009, 05:40 AM
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There are a number of cases made with off-center flashholes that never seem to cause problems. Can't speak on the accuracy factor with them, but don't recall ever having a pressure problem. My reloading practice is to clean the pockets and flashholes of all new brass (inside and outside), culling those with off-center holes that are really visually gross.
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