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  #1  
Old 05-03-2010, 07:47 PM
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Question Revolver bullet fit question


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Hi all -

I have (and've read ) the Beartooth Technical Guide, specifically on bullet fit to cylinder throat.

My Taurus 450 UL/.45 LC has a groove diam. of .451, with uniform throat dims. of .457.

Forcing cone mouth is over .465, so no prob there.

But is the diff. between groove & throat dims. too much to overcome?

I have a 300 gr. .457 mold I could use/modify, but I'm thinking paper-patching might be the better approach - a little hassle, for sure, but seems less stress mebbe?
My standard alloy is about BHN 10.5, but have pure lead also, which might be better w/patching.

Thoughts, experiences?

Thanks.

BTW - I won't trade for something else - I like this gun!

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Old 05-04-2010, 04:48 AM
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Hmmm. I have a Blackhawk at near those dimensions. .456" chamber throats and groove about .451". It shoots jacketed just fine, and 300gr. hard cast better than you would expect. Maybe just luck.... ?
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2010, 05:40 AM
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Use the .457 bullets and size and lube them to .457 and you will not have a problem. I'd prefer a BNH of around 18 if you are pushing them hard. I
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:52 AM
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IMO, you would have to have really soft bullets and/or be shooting really hot loads to bump your bullets up to .457" as it passes the cylinder throats. If your bullets were soft enough to bump up .005", they would also be soft enough to squeeze down to fit your groove diameter.

The problem encountered with throat/groove diameters, IIRC, is when the cylinder throats are undersized reducing bullet diameter and the bullet is no longer completely sealing off the bore as it travels down the barrel.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:24 PM
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I'm bringing this up again 'cause I still haven't tried the over-boresize bullets, and I've nixed paper-patching.

For clarification, in this light, short-barreled revolver I shoot a .451 255 gr SWC @ ~680 fps - about all the recoil I enjoy!

At 7 yds, accuracy is certainly acceptable, but more is gooder, right?

I'm thinking a .457 (cyl-throat fitting) 300 gr @ mebbe not much over 600 fps'd be tolerable also, and should be more accurate.

So, using ~10.5 BHN, any thoughts on likelihood of overstressing forcing cone/bbl sqeezing down to .451?
Cyl & bbl are stainless, o'course.

Thanks.

regards,
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  #6  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:47 AM
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While your cyl. throats are a little generous, they are at least better than too tight. I would size your bullets to .452 or .453 and try them there. My blackhawk has a groove dia. of .451 and after having the throats reamed to .4535 it now shoots the .452s quite well. No need to go so far over on the dia., but rule of thumb is to use cast bullets of .001 larger diameter than groove.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigby275 View Post
I'm bringing this up again 'cause I still haven't tried the over-boresize bullets, and I've nixed paper-patching.

For clarification, in this light, short-barreled revolver I shoot a .451 255 gr SWC @ ~680 fps - about all the recoil I enjoy!

At 7 yds, accuracy is certainly acceptable, but more is gooder, right?

I'm thinking a .457 (cyl-throat fitting) 300 gr @ mebbe not much over 600 fps'd be tolerable also, and should be more accurate.

So, using ~10.5 BHN, any thoughts on likelihood of overstressing forcing cone/bbl sqeezing down to .451?
Cyl & bbl are stainless, o'course.

Thanks.

regards,
The 300's will require a bit more powder, and thus higher pressure to make sure that they don't stick in the bore, which can happen with a bullet that has a long bearing surface and not enough presure behind it. That is never a good thing

It is no big deal to squeeze even harder lead bullets down in the forcing cone and then the barrel. They are still much softer than the steel. Your best accuracy will always come when the bullet is about .001" over the throat size. Like mentioned, if throats are undersized, the bullet will be too small for the bore, but that is a much easier fix than having over sized throats. A good gunsmith can open throats for about $40-$60, and can ream them to the desired diameter. Try to buy yourself some of the Remington or Winchester bulk bullets they sell at places like Cabela's. These bullets are soft swaged lead, so they obturate easily (slug up in the throats), and the Winchester bullets come sized at .455" while the Remingtons come sized at .454". They are also both hollow base designs which will also help them obturate in the throats. Having them fit the throat will help cut down on leading issues too, and in many cases it can eliminate the problem.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:12 AM
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Rigby275,

If you've read through the Beartooth technical manual and the experiences of others on this board, you'll know it's not uncommon for revolvers and lever rifles to shoot better with bullets 0.002" over groove diameter than the more general purpose 0.001" over groove dimension. You'll also find a lot of revolver shooters find sizing the bullet to fit the throat or about one half to one thousandth under throat diameter is most accurate for them. Your cylinder was actually designed to accommodate the old .454" bullets and molds that the .45 Colt used originally, though why they felt it necessary to go all the way out to .457" for that, I don't know.

What I would do in your shoes is take one of three tacs. The first is just to run some .453" bullets and some .456"-.457" bullets to see what's actually shooting most precisely in your gun.

Another is to try your original idea to paper patch. I've paper patched .452's up to .458" for gallery loads in a .45-70 lever gun and it worked out fine. I just don't know how it would do in the revolver. It might simply strip off and follow the bullet down the tube or it might actually swage down with it, in which case I guess I don't expect it to be particularly better than a .456"-.457" bullet.

Another is to use card or felt or polywads. That's to let you shoot a .452" or .453" bullet without picking up gas cutting, which spoils accuracy. A gas check may do just as much for you, and is also worth a try.

One caution about heavy bullets in a gun that light: A friend of mine has a titanium .45 Colt snubby. This is a big guy with huge hands, but even he is unable to prevent any bullet over about 200 grains from backing out in the cylinders from recoil when shooting full power loads. That applies to both commercial ammunition and handloads with heavy crimps. The heavier the bullet being fired, the harder the gun backs up in recoil. That's what will "pants" the bullet by yanking the case mouth off of it like a backward operating inertial bullet pullet. When they back out far enough, cylinder rotation is jammed.
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  #9  
Old 12-31-2012, 01:32 PM
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TNX guys -

I feel more comfortable about the idea now.
I'm not after hunting loads here, just reasonable defense loads within the constraints of a light snubbie.
Ive had no prob w/255 gr backing out, but I'll pay particular attention to that possibility w/300 grs.

Happy New Year to all.

regards,
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