So here are my initial thoughts on using it in the 243 with 58gr bullets, compared to Win 760.

CFE APPEARS to be a VERY fast powder in this application. For your cave-man description of the firing here is the difference.

Win 760:
Trigger pull, sear release, bang, whoosh goes the bullet.

CFE:
TriggerpullBOOMTargethit.

Terribly helpful right?
My load of 760 for shooting in the heat 90's+ is 48gr. with a chrono'd velocity of 3650-ish. CFE load was 43.8gr with the same velocity.
The cases with CFE are immaculately clean, not horrid with the 760, but the necks are dirty. The fouling differences are much different. I'm not a "I used it, better take a day to clean" kinda guy. I'm a "shoot till accuracy falls" guy. The 760 seems to have a very light fouling appearance in the bore, with copper building over time. Scrubbing(always our favorite job) is usual, and tedious. CFE has a VERY heavy dark soot residue, much like a low-power Win 748 load. And much like the latter, comes out with a hard puff of air.
I haven't shot enough to know yet, but there seems to be MUCH less copper accumulation than the 760. Much like what 748 produces in my 308.
So far(it's still early-on in development) CFE doesn't seem to be as temperamental in the heat, like 760 is.

Best of luck to all!

I have to ask,but why such a slow burning powder for a light weight bullet in the 243? I would think you would be better served with IMR4064 or some similar burn rate.

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bandit, I use H4350 with the 58 grain Vmax in my .243. Don't ask me why, but it works!

RJ

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I think of 748/CFE223/4895-class powders as too fast for the 243, even with the super-lightweights. 760/4350 is where to be in that case for lightweights, up to a Supreme 780/Magnum/4831/H1000 for the heavies.

Thanks for the review, Darkker! CFE223 shows more and more indication of being very similar to 748, as it should, which is nice because it significantly updates Hodgy's ancient-tech 335 & BL-C(2), and gives us another American-made option in a very popular and useful burn range.

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The reason I ask is because in my 6.5x55 using 100grain bullets, I get the best velocity and accuracy with IMR4064. I would think the same would hold true with the 243 considering the case capacity and bullet weight spread [55grs to 105grs for the 243, and 95grs to 160grs for the swede].

The same powders that tend to work well with the heavier bullets in both calibers tend to be the same [4350, h4831, rel-22, rel-19, etc.] so why wouldn't it be so with the lighter bullets too?

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DMS,
Why is because I like the US made GD powders, and am a creature of habit. So 748 & 760 covers everything I do.(223,22-250,243,25-06,270,308)

I REALLY like 760 in my 25-06. So if I could slow powder consumption of 760, as far as the 243 is concerned; AND have some flexability, I'm game. Around here 760/414 is a hassle to get, NOT the case with CFE & 748. When it is cool out, I have a 760 load(243) that gives fantastic accuracy ES & SD in the very low single digits; with top velocities.

I have never been a fan of the IMR powders. No particular reason to hate them, just not a fan.
When

I use alot of 748 also and I use some 760, but it stays on the shelf more than others in the house. The stick powders do tend to meter poorly, but I weigh every rifle charge anyway, so it doesn't effect my accuracy.

I was just curious as to why you were using the powders you listed. Myself, I have a broad selection to chose from and I always find something to work well in my many different calibers. I guess my powder selection I have on hand is why I personally don't try newer powders as they hit the market. I have a history of loads with the older powders like 748, 760, etc.

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Darkker, thanks for the info on CFE223 in the .243. A friend just bought a tikka 708 for his youngsters first deer rifle, and i was thinking of using that powder for load development. A little concerned about ambient temps and pressures though.
Stepping out back to check CFE223 peak loads in my .308 as its @ 90 degrees out now, I'll see how close to 748 pressure wise it preforms in the heat.

Well, personally I think 748 in the 308 in the heat is solid as a rock; my loads anywho.
I did my CFE testing at 95-98 degrees yesterday. Thus far it is MUCH more consistent in the heat, than 760 is with the lightweights. My 760 loads that are tested in the 70's an lower MUST be backed off a grain when it's hot. A hot barrel fools with things as well. Again it's early in development, but so far CFE doesn't show that issue.

For those who are volume folks, It took a bit O digging on Lee's website; but I found the forumula I was after.
If you want to know a CC correlation to weight(grains) without a billion trial and errors; here is how you get close.

Lee's formula from their website faq section is this:
To determin VMD on your own.
CC setting on your powder measure / Weight of that sample = VMD(volume in cc's for 1 grain of powder.

So if the number was .125, and you wanted 44 grains: .125*44 = 5.5cc

For any of you Volume guys out there in cyberspace:
CFE223 is too new to be listed in the VMD Factor sheet that Lee has. Here is what I came up with, in my lot of powder.
VMD factor = .06849315
So 14.60 grains/cc
YMMV

Yes, the Lee VMD's are number of CC's per grain of powder. Note two things, though: Those VMD's are a measure of the bulk density of the powder and bulk density is not written in stone. It has a tolerance. Take a look at the rifle powders on the Accurate web site. You see VMD's given both as CC's per Grain and as CC's per gram (for European users). But you also see a tolerances for each powder that varies from ±2.6% to ±5.6%, depending on which powder it is. So, you still need to verify the particular can you bought against a scale if you are measuring volumetrically.

Also a caution to newbies: When you reach the same velocity with the same bullet loads using faster and slower powders, the faster powder will be producing a higher peak pressure. The fact the muzzle kinetic energy of the bullets is the same tells you the average pressures in the barrel matched, but nothing about the pressure curve shaped that produced that average. A slower burn rate powder reaches a particular average with lower peak pressure and higher muzzle pressure, while a fast powder reaches it with higher peak pressure and lower muzzle pressure.

Extreme example from QuickLOAD:

24" bbl. .30-06 with 168 grain A-max bullet over 60.00 gr. IMR 7828 SSC (slow powder)

MV:	2723 fps
Peak:	46,520 psi
Muzzle:	9,824 psi

24" bbl. .30-06 with 168 grain A-max bullet over 41.53 gr. IMR 4227 (fast powder)

MV:	2723 fps
Peak:	65,348 psi
Muzzle:	6,782 psi

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"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley

Darkker, your measured VMD of 14.6 grains/cc is right on the money for what I typically see in newly-opened canisters of General Dynamics' spherical rifle powders (mostly 748, but 760, too). Lee's published VMDs (as published on the slide rules which accompany their dippers) are off by nearly a grain vs. actual measurements I've ever taken. So, I agree to not just use Lee's (nor the powder manufacturers') VMDs and 'assume' you're where you want to be.

Note that my measured VMDs change somewhat as a canister ages, if I don't use it up right away. That point notwithstanding, sticking with volume has been more consistent than weight for me if I get a container of powder that I take a long time to use. I believe Rocky and Darkker have also had that experience(?). Since I hate weighing charges anyway, and volume has been more consistent for me (also more consistent when switching lots), I don't weigh powder except when I first work with a powder type or lot#.

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