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Marlin 336 219 Zipper?

8K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  HarryS 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello to all:

I was passing through PA today and noticed a gun shop so I stopped and asked if they had any used Marlins. He had a 336-.30-30 pre-CBS that I wasn't interested in, but said that he had a 336-219 Zipper that he had got in an estate sale that was being re-stocked. Said the bore is "perfect" and wanted $800.

From what I've read in posts and Brophy's book, the zipper was notorious for poor accuracy and short barrel life. Manufactured during 1955-1959, only 3,230 were made. Poor performance dictated its demise.

Anyone have experience with this rifle? I like the idea of the 219 zipper velocity in a Marlin levergun, but I like to shoot target for accuracy. Doing load development and attaining very good accuracy from my Marlin levers is fun & relaxing for me.

Should I even bother considering this zipper or will it be just an expensive frustration? By the way, a RCBS reloading die set is $127 assuming that you've got 219 brass.

Thanks,
Dan
 
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#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
Never heard the poor barrel life comment in anything I've read about the Zipper...considering everything, should have good barrel life, the amount of powder and the pressure it operates at seem mild.
Target accuracy probably isn't in the cards, but there ae some reports (Ken Waters) of very good accuracy from the stiff barreled Marlins (the barrel is a bit "stout")...much less good from Winchesters. May find it frustrting if anything under 1 3/4MOA is the goal (this for a string of groups, not one or two "freak" groups). On the plus side, are many more powders to try today and bullets are better than they use to be.
Spitzers and tube mags...have to make up your own mind about that, but traditionally the .219zipper rounds were loaded with at least blunt bullets. Considering it's main use, if spitzers are a worry, then using it as a two-shot varmint gun would put your mind at ease (one in the tube, one in the chamber).
Know you can form and load brass with a collection of dies...a .25-35 die as step to a set of .219zipper dies should do the trick (have done it with a .250savage die as an intermediate step) but even 'real' .219zipper cases tend to have shorter lives than most cases.
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Nope..didn't have a .219zipper...did have an old rifle that someone made into a .22/25rem. wildcat sometime in the 1930's or 1940's. Made cases from .30Rem. using a .250savage as an intermediate step to a .22/250 die set. Would only neck size, but once the body got too tight, would size in a .30rem. to reduce the body size.
 
#5 ·
Dan 444 said:
ribbonstone,

Many thanks for the info!

Dan

You hve to decide about the price...and I'd guess that depends on the restocking being done. A good question to ask is why was it being restocked? Fire is the main worry, enough heat and the gun isn't safe to shoot.

Being restocked, shouldn't charge a collctor's price for an original in the same condition. Reblued?..same deal.

Collectors (at least those who know thier field) want one with all the original parts, even if they are a bit worn. Shooters will want one that has some collector's problems, but at a low price. This one seems to be inbetween.

As far as the ballistics of the round, it's pretty close to the .223. Most will have a 1: 14 twist barrel, which would limit heavy wegiht bullets to the 60-63gr. versions with flat bases and bluff noses (although the blunt Speer 70gr. might shoot).
 
#6 ·
I bought one a couple months ago , but I've yet to shoot it :(

I bought 150 pieces of 30-30 WIN that had been formed to 219 Zipper for about $40 . Also got a set of Redding dies from Midway for about $60 .
 
#7 ·
6pt,
I'm still undecided whether to get the zipper...it isn't inexpensive and, even though I would not mind significant load development activity, I don't want to be frustrated with poor accuracy as the end result. Please let us know your results; hopefully you'll have an accurate result and then I can go buy this one!
Thanks,
Dan
 
#8 ·
Dan,
I bought and sold a 336 Zipper last year and while it was fun to mess around with, I never could get consistent accuracy from it and I did a ton of load development. I wasn't expecting bolt gun accuracy but a varmint gun that averages 1.5" or so that sometimes shoots fliers that open the group to 3.0" just wasn't good enough for me. The gun also has a heavier barrel so it was kind of heavy to use as a "walking around" varmint rifle. By the way $800 for one restocked is WAAAY too expensive for one of these. Mine was in very good condition and I bought it for $350 and sold it for $395. Within the last year, I have seen "mint" ones sitting for sale at gun shows for $650 and they don't sell. These are relatively easy to find so I would look for a cheaper one if you really want to mess with one.
 
#9 ·
I plan on shooting 60 grain Nosler Partitions in the Zipper . But I will work up loads with the 60 grain Hornady first .

I eventually want to kill a deer with that Nosler bullet . Then I will most likely put it in the safe ;)
 
#12 ·
6pt-sika said:
I plan on shooting 60 grain Nosler Partitions in the Zipper . But I will work up loads with the 60 grain Hornady first .

I eventually want to kill a deer with that Nosler bullet . Then I will most likely put it in the safe ;)

Have had some 1:14 barrels just refuse to shoot either of the 60gr. bullets mentioned...weren't unstable (at least to the range tested), they didn't key-hole, holes were nice and round,they just pattered like an improved cylinder 12ga. Just makred it up to "go figure" and went on about the bussiness of finding loads that did work.

Found bullets longer than the 60gr. Hornady or Nolser did keyhole...and those the same length or shorter than the 55gr. Speer flat base grouped very well....so i let well enough alone and shot 55gr. bullets (but i wasn't planning a deer hunt).

Might just have been tow or three 1:14 twsit barrels' indivualities....other 1: 14's have worked fine with 60gr. and even the 70gr. Speer semi-point.

SO...even if your rifle won't shoot the pointed 60gr. bullets, give the blunt Speer 70gr. a try before giving up.
 
#13 ·
ribbonstone said:
Have had some 1:14 barrels just refuse to shoot either of the 60gr. bullets mentioned...weren't unstable (at least to the range tested), they didn't key-hole, holes were nice and round,they just pattered like an improved cylinder 12ga. Just makred it up to "go figure" and went on about the bussiness of finding loads that did work.

Found bullets longer than the 60gr. Hornady or Nolser did keyhole...and those the same length or shorter than the 55gr. Speer flat base grouped very well....so i let well enough alone and shot 55gr. bullets (but i wasn't planning a deer hunt).

Might just have been tow or three 1:14 twsit barrels' indivualities....other 1: 14's have worked fine with 60gr. and even the 70gr. Speer semi-point.

SO...even if your rifle won't shoot the pointed 60gr. bullets, give the blunt Speer 70gr. a try before giving up.
In Ken Waters ,Pet Loads he used the 60 grain Hornady in a 336SC and they seemed to shoot alright . I believe he used 24.5 grains of IMR4895 with them . However in my rifle they may not be . If I can keep 3 of the Noslers in 1.5" @ 100 I'll be satisfied . Well not really but it'll be good enough to kill a deer .
 
#15 ·
6pt-sika said:
In Ken Waters ,Pet Loads he used the 60 grain Hornady in a 336SC and they seemed to shoot alright . I believe he used 24.5 grains of IMR4895 with them . However in my rifle they may not be . If I can keep 3 of the Noslers in 1.5" @ 100 I'll be satisfied . Well not really but it'll be good enough to kill a deer .

Going to add one more bullet choice, simply because I forgot. Sierra 63gr. Semi-point is a bit shorter than either the 60gr. Hornady or Nosler and worth a try in the Zipper.
 
#16 ·
My old marlin 336 219 zipper improved

I have an old marlin 336 219 zipper improved that i have carried for over 50 years and still shoot targets today with my old buddies every other day. This old lever gun belonged to my father. When my father had the barrel changed he made his improved rounds from 30/30 or i think from 35 remington. He had a set of herters dies that the gun smith furnished and i am still using today. I used the winchester 30/30 brass, it is soft and works well. I had read some of the comments on the forum and thought i would put my 2 cents in just for old times. This old lever gun could tell a lot of stories. It is still accurate and will shoot a three shot group at a 100 yds that i can cover with a penny. I load with 4198 use 52 grn siera bullet at about 3450 fps. A fairly light load and not hard on the gun. I still have a lot of 219 zipper ammo. From the old days that my father had and alot of brass that is marked 219 zipper on the bottom of the case. I have shot some this and it seems to shot well if someone is interested drop a line. Maybe i'll talk again sometime, this hunt and peck on this key board takes long time. Thanks for listening bowdean
 
#18 ·
The 219 Zipper in the Marlin 336 did have a poor reputation for accuracy, but that's because 22 centerfire shooters of the time expected the level of accuracy they could easily get from bolt actions and the 336 wasn't likely to give it.

I can't imagine how barrel life could be an issue given the modest amounts of powder and relatively low pressure involved.
 
#21 ·
Yep, I snagged her back in 2006 and glad that I did. Got some re-formed R-P 30-30 brass from a fella on Gunbroker and worked up some loads with the Speer 46gr FP and H4895. Pretty accurate 5-shot groups at 3300 fps.....at 50 yds, cover 'em with a quarter...........at 100 yds, 2" groups. Fun gun......coyotes don't think that they're fun.:D:D

Dan
 
#24 ·
Last Dec I dumped my NIB condition 375 marlin 336 at a gun show in PA.. Two trips back to Marlin, recrowned target muzzle and extensive reloading and shooting factory ammo, and it would not group under 4" with scope from a rigid bench at 100 yards.

Some do some just don't and never will.....frustrating.
But I'm not parting with my marlin 44, 30-30, and 25-20 lever guns, in PA nor else where.
 
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