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  #1  
Old 06-09-2007, 06:24 PM
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356 WIn


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Well, I broke down and sent my 30-30AI Marlin 336 off for a rebore to 356 Win.

Got tired of struggling w/ the thin walled 30-30 case. Kept snapping the necks off when full length sizing. And even when I got a good case, it didn't cycle real well.

THe old gunsmith that reamed my chamber set the shoulder alot further forward than the LEE die's dimension, so I had to back way off to form the case to keep the shoulder from being set back too far. I tried neck sizing, but no way the case would cycle thru my action. All this would have been worthwhile if I'd been able to get any kind of accuracy.

Maybe with more (and better) reloading variations, I would have gotten the magic combination. BUt am looking forward to going with the 356 for deer this fall. I'll try the 180 grain Speers to start with..although I hear the 220's are great bullets.

Last edited by leverite; 06-09-2007 at 06:32 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2007, 04:17 AM
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Hi Leverite,

You planning on using .35 Remington type loads in the Marlin or full house .356?
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  #3  
Old 06-10-2007, 08:27 AM
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[QUOTE=leverite] Kept snapping the necks off when full length sizing.
THe old gunsmith that reamed my chamber set the shoulder alot further forward than the LEE die's dimension, [/QUOT]

Could you post a picture of one of the broken cases and one of your .30-30AI cases next to a standard .30-30?

I have some 180-grain bullets loaded up for my .356. I intend to compare some 4198 and Reloder 10 data with Snow when he gets that work thing out of the way.... Will post in the .356 reloading thread.
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Old 06-10-2007, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroontoad
Hi Leverite,

You planning on using .35 Remington type loads in the Marlin or full house .356?
I don't believe I'll use the full boat 356 loads. NFG had a thread last winter about his conversion and the loads he was developing. I believe he was estimating 45-48 kpsi for his loads versus the 50kpsi for the SAAMI spec'd cartridge. He was using the SPeer 220 grainers, but I don't recall the velocity.

I want to try the 180's first.

I also intend to load up a bunch of plinking/coyote loads with revolver bullets.
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  #5  
Old 06-10-2007, 08:41 AM
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[QUOTE=william iorg]
Quote:
Originally Posted by leverite
Kept snapping the necks off when full length sizing.
THe old gunsmith that reamed my chamber set the shoulder alot further forward than the LEE die's dimension, [/QUOT]

Could you post a picture of one of the broken cases and one of your .30-30AI cases next to a standard .30-30?

I have some 180-grain bullets loaded up for my .356. I intend to compare some 4198 and Reloder 10 data with Snow when he gets that work thing out of the way.... Will post in the .356 reloading thread.
Sorry...no digital camera and the cases went out w/ the garbage. The necks broke off at the shoulder bend.

I'll be watching the 356 thread. SUre appreciated your help in the past with the 30-30AI.
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  #6  
Old 06-10-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leverite
SUre appreciated your help in the past with the 30-30AI.
I am sorry to say I was not of much help. I did not realise your chamber was different and your dies were not correct for your cartridge. I missed that somehow.
About 25 years ago I entered into a discussion with James Tillinghast. Mr. Tillinghast was a cartridge collector and dealer in collector cartridges. He was also a very nice guy. I was interested in wildcat and Improved cartridges and Tillinghast always had something of interest. He told me there were several virtually unknown versions of the Improved .30-30. He hunted up this one for me. It has a 22 degree shoulder and modest reduction in case taper. The only other Improved .30-30’s I am aware of are the Ackley 40 degree shoulder and the Frank “Paco” Kelly/Gary Reader version with the shoulder pushed well forward. Did your gunsmith give any details of the improved chamber he reamed for you?

.30-30 Winchester 15º 39’
.30-30 Improved 22º
.30-30 Ackley Impr 40º
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356 WIn-tillinghast-3030-improved.jpg  
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william iorg
I am sorry to say I was not of much help. I did not realise your chamber was different and your dies were not correct for your cartridge. I missed that somehow.
About 25 years ago I entered into a discussion with James Tillinghast. Mr. Tillinghast was a cartridge collector and dealer in collector cartridges. He was also a very nice guy. I was interested in wildcat and Improved cartridges and Tillinghast always had something of interest. He told me there were several virtually unknown versions of the Improved .30-30. He hunted up this one for me. It has a 22 degree shoulder and modest reduction in case taper. The only other Improved .30-30’s I am aware of are the Ackley 40 degree shoulder and the Frank “Paco” Kelly/Gary Reader version with the shoulder pushed well forward. Did your gunsmith give any details of the improved chamber he reamed for you?

.30-30 Winchester 15º 39’
.30-30 Improved 22º
.30-30 Ackley Impr 40º
He did a 40 degree shoulder, but might have run the reamer in a little too far. He's retired now and gone from the area, so I'll never know for sure.

I didn't notice how much the shoulder was moving until I got a set of Hornady's case length gages. Using the guage, it was apparent that full length sizing moved the fireformed shoulder back quite a ways.

I don't feel it was complete loss, as I learned quite a bit about the finer points of reloading. As was fooling around with the 30-30AI, I became a fan of the 35's. I think the big bullet will be a better way for this rifle. It will be perfect for bear hunting and for deer this fall. Light, quick handling and throwing out 180 to 220 grain slugs.

Last edited by leverite; 06-10-2007 at 07:04 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-10-2007, 07:08 PM
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That is indeed part of the fun with wildcats and obsolete cartridges. We learn a lot loading for them.
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Old 06-10-2007, 07:58 PM
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I think that deep, improved chambers must be a pretty common Gunsmith mistake.
Both my .257 Roberts AI and my .35-30/30AI were over deep. The cure for the Roberts was to start with a new 7mm case and neck down with a false shoulder and for the .35-30/30AI the fix was new brass, neck up using a .338, then .366 expander, leaving a false shoulder. After fire-forming, I annealed the necks and reloaded using a neck sizer only.

Snow.

Last edited by maroontoad; 06-10-2007 at 08:01 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-11-2007, 11:40 AM
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Just heard from Jes, the smith who's reboring my 30-30AI to 356. The chamber had been cut too deep...and also the rim area.

SInce the AI shoulder was so small, it was no wonder I was having headspace and accuracy issues.

My 356 chamber will still have the overcut rim groove, so I will have to headspace on the shoulder, just like a 308. I will need to build up a false shoulder for the first load to get the case fireformed to my chamber. A bit of a hassle, but nothing unusual.
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Old 06-11-2007, 12:02 PM
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Yes, no wonder you had trouble. Odd as the chamber is easy to cut.

By headspacing on the shoulder you may end up with the best accuracy!

Will this be a three groove barrel? Should be a good cast bullet rifle.
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Old 06-11-2007, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william iorg
Yes, no wonder you had trouble. Odd as the chamber is easy to cut.

By headspacing on the shoulder you may end up with the best accuracy!

Will this be a three groove barrel? Should be a good cast bullet rifle.

yes..3 groove, 1 in 12 twist. Should be done and back to me by the weekend and I don't even have dies or brass yet.

I think I can make some 356 "rimless" by neck sizing some long 308 cases I have.
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