Last year my son killed a 3 X 4 bull elk in Wyoming with his 35 Remington. Two quick shots into the chest organs and the animal toppled over. Very good performance for shooting at approx 125 yards in heavy timber. That 200 grain bullet packs a heavy wallop! You will likely see same performance with a big California bear at reasonable distances. The trick is to keep shooting into the chest until the animal goes down.

This photo was snapped during the summer in the Pocono Mts. of eastern Pennsylvania.

Good hunting to you.

TR

I own both .444 and 45-70, several examples of each. I like both but if I could have only one or the other it would be the .444 as it is the more versatile of the two. I shoot only reloads.

For anyone who ever shot a few elk, that's pretty good advice for any rifle you can shoot, without it being mounted on a tracked vehicle.

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No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
>>> Thomas Jefferson

With equal bullet placement on a bear at any range, the result will be the same...I would consider both to be good bear killers at up to 300 yards if you can hit them...I have seen a lot of elk killed in my youth by 30-30, 25-35s and 300 Savages and some at rather extended ranges and elk are much tougher to kill than a black bear.. Those old timers that dragged me along, never wounded anything..

The myth of the hunting world is most all the big game calibers kill about the same if the bullet goes to through the lungs or heart and of course the spin or brain...the rest is hooey...My only concern would be blood trails or lack thereof with some of the lighter calibers.

I really don't warm up to either the 30-30 or the 35-Remington as a bear rifle (black bear) there have been lots of bears killed with these calibers but one never knows, when that giant bear will turn the corner coming your way. Myself, I want more "smackdown power", the .444 Marlin takes care of this quite well. Just a little food for thought bear hunters! Entelligent guides, will tell you to never drop the hammer on a bear over 100 yds away, unless your shooting Teddy Bears.

I don't have direct experiance with either, but one thing I've noticed since this gun/ammo buying panic started is that .30/30 is one of the few readily available cartridges I see anywhere that sells ammo. That to me gives a lot of weight to the selection.

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"In the end it is up to the man what he becomes, and none of those other things matter. In horses, dogs and men it is charactor that counts." Louis L'Amour

Will either of those feed in a lever action 444 ? Will the 500 ? They will in any 45/70 levergun, without any modifications to the gun.

And, with "specialty ammunition" such as Buffalo Bore's 30-30 190 grain @ 2100 FPS, it IS close enough - and 30-30 factory ammo is much more available in Mom & Pop's General Store in WayOutBack, North Dakota than 35 Remington.
Moreover, the BB 30-30 load can be duplicated using 190 grian bullets designed for the 303 Savage.
I don't DISLIKE the 35, but like the Glock pistol, it's devotees seem to strive to deride the competition.
Make mine 30-30 - all day long & twice on Sunday.

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- A Man Without A Cross -

A 150 grain .308 has the same SD as a 200 grain .358 and at same velocity should produce about the same penetration. The 170 grain has the same SD as a 230 grain .358 bullet. The lighter weight .308 bullets should produce flatter trajectory at the ranges these guns would be used at. Recoil (impulse) might be a little less also.

For the reloader the smaller head diameter of the 30-30 case should be better suited to +P loads in a lever action provided the gun is relatively new and in good shape.

Now for those with little experience hunting large black bears, they are no push over and I have seen big bears hit with 00-Buck and run into the next county.........hunter never got his bear. I have also see with my own eyes, 2 hunters using the 348 cal shooting away at a 450 lb or better black bear charging full steam right at them and they never got their bear. This bear ran 10 yds away from them broadside and they still never got their bear. They said that they both hit this bear at leasty twic! I don't know how many times they hit the bear from 60 yds away up until it almost ran them over but no blood was found. Not that this is a positive sign of no hits! Bear's hide and fur soak up blood like a big sponge. So the moral to my tale, is make darn possitive your carrying a large caliber rifle that will penetrate heavy bullets. I like my .444 Marlin and my 45/70 for this kind of hunting. I myself like to hit them in the front shoulders and with the right bullet and caliber, you break those shoulders and that critter is not going to catch a train out of town no way.

I've watched similar shots quite a few times.

Once while I was hunting in PA, two guys on another ridge emptied their rifles on a big 8 point buck at about 25-30yds. The buck was following a hot doe at a trot, through open woods. As they came across the valley, a distance of maybe two hundred yds, the doe turned and came toward me, angling to pass about forty yds broadside. I popped the buck with a single shot with my 7-08, and he folded after about 20 paces. The two shooters hustled over and insisted they had killed the deer. There was one hole, and the blood trail started right where I had shot, taking out his heart with a shot low in the chest. They looked for another hole for about 3 minutes, and left.

The shooters, (not hunters), with the .348's shot a few trees, and a lot of air.

I've shot only three bears in my life, two with a bow, no Boo-Boo's. They were all dead within sight of my stand.

__________________
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
>>> Thomas Jefferson

I've shot the 30-30, 32 Spl, 35 Remington (rifle and pistol) plus the big bores (444, 45-70 and 45-90). Also some "standard rifles" in levers (30-40, 30-06, 308, etc).

My favorite of the "standard" or "modern" calibers is the 348 Winchester. If I was limited to one, that would be the lever I'd keep. More power than the 35 and a better/stronger action than any traditional lever. More expense and you pretty much have to handload but well worth it.

I reload and I'm a 35 cal. fan, okay but if I didn't reload the 30-30 would be it for a lot of reasons like plenty of ammo and anywhere not so with the 35R. If you are going bear hunting with a 30 30 and your carrying a 44 mag. I can see a problem just chose your ammo well and practice, practice, practice.

If you must have one lever action rifle for both large and medium game the 45-70 is the easiest rifle to find but a 444, 338 exp. would be my choice. As mention the BLR is a great rifle and the BLR 81 take down in 308W. 358W would be on my list for L & M game.

T NY