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  #1  
Old 11-18-2007, 10:48 PM
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10mm Lever Action?


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Does anyone know if there has ever been a 10mm lever action made? I know that a rimless cartridge may pose some problems but im sure they could be overcome (if they havent been already). I have a S&W 610 (10mm) that has been on my hip for the past few years while hunting/camping/hiking, and I really want a rifle chambered in the same caliber. The 10mm is a somewhat "off the beaten path" cartridge, and so far I have found my options limited to an AR platform or an MP5/10, neither of which I would want to carry around in the woods or hunt with. I guess I could also get something like a TC Contender, but I am not really a fan of single shots. So bottom line is I want a 10mm lever gun and im pretty sure im S.O.L. but I would appreciate any information you gentlemen could provide. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2007, 04:18 AM
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What I want is for Beretta to come out with a CX4 Storm chambered in 10mm.

I have one in 45ACP and it shoots great. But somehow, the Double Tap 200gr WFN(10mm)hardcast, coming outta a 16" bbl, has gotta be some serious stuff. They are great outta my Glock 20 with the 6" bbl. -----pruhdlr
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2007, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesmith
Does anyone know if there has ever been a 10mm lever action made?
Sure, thousands of them. Winchester started chambering the Model 1873 for their 10mm cartridge and followed up with their Model 1892. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that Browning's Model 92 and Marlin's Model 1894 Cowboy had been chambered for it, too.

The Old Guy
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Old 11-19-2007, 08:12 AM
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Yep, the .38-40 WCF

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  #5  
Old 11-19-2007, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOG
Sure, thousands of them. Winchester started chambering the Model 1873 for their 10mm cartridge and followed up with their Model 1892. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that Browning's Model 92 and Marlin's Model 1894 Cowboy had been chambered for it, too.

The Old Guy

Lol, that's pretty funny Old Guy but I did specify the rimless version!
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:03 AM
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Welcome Bladesmith,

I don't expect that a 10MM with a straight walled case that headspaces on the case mouth would be impossible, but I would worry about the bullets being driven back into the case during recoil when used in a tubular magazine, raising the chamber preasure. It might work in a Ruger lever action with a box magazine. You would have to have a barrel chambered and countoured to fit, and probably have one of their magazines altered for the case, as well as having the bolt face modified. You might try talking to a local gunsmith, and get his imput, but I would be a little reluctant to do one on a tubular magazine rifle.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesmith
Lol, that's pretty funny Old Guy but I did specify the rimless version!
OK, if you want a rimless 10mm, like the .40 S&W or the 10mm Automatic, how about cutting an inch or so from the rear end of a .38-40 barrel, rethreading it, and rechambering it for your rimless round, and screwing it into a Marlin 336 with a .44 Magnum carrier?

Dunno about the bolt face and extractor -- your rimless 10mm rounds measure .425 inches and the .35 Remington (for which Marlin 336 bolts are readily available) measures .460 inches. You would have to ask one of our 'smiths how much work the bolt face would be, but I have to believe it could be done. And, by the way, the .35 Remington is a rimless case, so that, in itself, is no problem.

I could probably have a dolls-head Parker or an African double rifle for what your 10mm rimless lever action rifle would cost you, but I guess we both can dream. . .

Lee, one way to overcome the bullet push-back problem would be to use a case-full of powder -- black, or something like Trail Boss.

Kind of a fun project, anyway.

The Old Guy
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:15 PM
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Lee, thanks for the welcome! Old Guy, thats a very interesting idea but for the money you are talking about I would also like a well made English or American double (Purdy, Parker, Winchester 21, etc.). So looks like the answer to my problem is to buy another N frame Smith and a Marlin 1894 in a matching caliber... i'm sure you guys understand but im pretty sure my wife won't! Anyway, seems y'all are a pretty knowledgeable group of people and I look forward to talking guns with you.

Doug
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2007, 02:22 PM
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Think the Rugers with the box magazine would be your best bet for a conversion.....

By the way - don't take this negatively - but the truth of the matter is that the .357 Mag and the 10mm are pretty well identical in performance. Example, from handguns they can both throw 200gr. bullets at about 1200fps, plenty of examples in the loading manuals. For the ballistics you want, there's an off-the-shelf solution....

So, the point of the exercise becomes "just because," not that there is anything wrong with that.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG
Think the Rugers with the box magazine would be your best bet for a conversion.....

By the way - don't take this negatively - but the truth of the matter is that the .357 Mag and the 10mm are pretty well identical in performance. Example, from handguns they can both throw 200gr. bullets at about 1200fps, plenty of examples in the loading manuals. For the ballistics you want, there's an off-the-shelf solution....

So, the point of the exercise becomes "just because," not that there is anything wrong with that.
It actually isn't ballistics im after, just a handgun/carbine combo that uses the same ammo. If I wanted more power I would go 44 mag, I just happen to have a favorite woods gun in 10mm. The only 357 I have is a DAO SP-101 and it is nowhere near as much fun to shoot as the 610.

I have had my eye on a used 629 at my local gun store, and the Marlin 1894SS looks like a great companion gun so thats probably the direction i'm headed.

Anybody know why Marlin discontinued the 1894P 16" barrel length? Seems like a handy little gun!
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  #11  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:59 PM
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Does your carbine HAVE to be a Lever??

I remember seeing an article about M1 carbines
that had been converted to 45 ACP.
The lower pressure of the GI round would not
operate the action, so you had to manually
pull back the slide to eject/chamber, but I wonder
if the higher operating pressure of the 10mm
would do it just fine??

I think I saw this in "The Book of the 45" by Dean Grenell
but I'm still at work and don't have it handy.

Keep us informed on what you might do

Cheers!

BigMikeGallagher
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2007, 05:07 PM
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Was Marlin's camp rifle ever chambered in 45 ACP? For some reason I thought it was. I know it was chambered for the 9mm.

There's a few semi-auto versions out there for 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 9mm that would work for you.

The levers could be 357 Mag and 44 Mag. I think some of the Cowboy Action rifles are also chambered in 38-40 and 44-40, which you can still find revolvers chambered in.
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2007, 08:35 PM
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Marlin did indeed bulid a Camp Carbine in 45acp. I have one. I had to look long and hard for it, but I do have one! I don't know how many were built.

Unfortunately the Camp Carbine is entirely unsuitable to 10mm conversion. There are many design flaws with it including extreme bolt velocities, weak stocks and bad buffer design. These flaws can be mitigated with tailored handloads and spring changes, but factory loads just beat the guns up.

This has relevance to 10mm, which is a VERY high power round. It is just too powerful for the Camp Carbine design. It might be possible to adapt a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 to 10mm, but I'm not sure. I personally think a locked breech design is needed for the 10mm.

just my opinion...
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2007, 12:19 PM
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The closest you can get to a levergun in 10mm is a gas-operated semi-auto, like a modified M-1 carbine. I saw an article several years ago about a 'smith who was making some odd-caliber conversions, for some reason I want to say it was Tim LaFrance, but I could be way off the right name.

As for problems in using a rimless shell in a levergun, well, there are some. The 35 Remington works, but it has a shoulder to headspace on. All the 10mm has is a case mouth, and with a heavy taper-crimp, you could run into problems if the extractor doesn't hold the shell in place. Use enough crimp to hold the bullets in place in a tube mag, and the shell could go too deep in the chamber. Then it either won't fire because it's out of reach of the firing pin, or it ramps pressures way up because the case mouth is being squeezed by the throat. Neither is much fun.

I have long had a yen for a semi-auto 10mm, but not the funds to make it happen. Imagine a carbine about the size and weight of an M-1, with a 20-round stick, in the woods after a feral pig. The 10mm hits as hard at 200 yards as the 45ACP does at the muzzle, and no one is calling the 45 a wimpy round. A semi -Ten might also be the ultimate Urban Rifle!

Papajohn
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