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...don't count out lever guns such as the Winchester Model 88. This rig, chambered to .308 Win, will handle nearly any deer situation.

You might try one of the focusing aids such as the Merrit disc to see if that helps. You can simply cut a piece of cardboard about the diameter of a quarter/nickel and put a 1/8 inch hole in the center with a drill and tape it to your glasses over your shooting eye and see how much sharper the sights are. (old competition shooters trick).

Changing to other sights also may help, but I've found for aging eyes and open sights the merrit system works well. I see someone is making an inexpensive one that Midway is selling.

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Bob from Idaho

I have two lever guns with Williams peep sights and the front fire sight post and I think they work great, BUT.....I'm guessing you're using the standard aperture that comes with the sight when purchased. Williams make an aperture called the "Twilight Aperture" that works better in poor light conditions, etc. I don't like the standard aperture that comes with the FP/5D for the same reason stated above.

I suggest you give them a try before you change anything else. I've also found the .093 aperture to be the easiest to use.........at least for me.

Regards, Vic

What is the nature of your dissatisfaction? Do you mean the groups are not as small as you wish?

If you have been shooting scopes on rifles for a while you will need to make a mental adjustment because most of us cannot shoot the same size groups with a peep sight. If I can shoot a 4" 3-shot group offhand with a 2.5X scope on my .444 Marlin I can only get 5"-6" group with the peep sight. That's just the way it is. Scopes will spoil you that way.

However, serious practice will shrink the iron sight groups if you keep at it. But it takes practice. I compare the difference between proficiency with scope vs peep sights to the difference between proficiency with a sighted compound bow vs a traditional bare bow. The learning curve is much steeper for the latter in each case.

Also, what accuracy do you need at the ranges you most likely will encounter when hunting, assuming this is primarily a hunting gun? Each must answer that question individually.

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WyoStillhunter
"Hunt close, then get closer."

Far as a sighting aid is concerned a piece of black electrical tape folded over then refolded cut a small hole 1/8th inch in it reopen the folds and tape it over your lense.

The rear aperature being too small will give you a bad sight picture also, I just chuck em up in my lathe and make them bigger until things clear up. I also take a standard one and open it up as far as it will go when hunting in areas I can shoot any distance. Take em out when shooting dense cover.

Thanks for all inputs!

I am used to common iron sights, which I prefer to scopes as long as light and distance allow. With irons I have no problems to get the shots into a 2 inch circle at 100 yards, which I find quite satisfying and accurate enough for hunting. Offhand it will open to 4 or 5 inches.

Shooting with the tiniest aperture, 0.05", goes well, but it is to narrow for hunting. The standard 0.125" is, however, to wide even for that. I can't get closer groups than 6 inches with it - from the bench. And that is too bad for hunting.

I will consider the friendly advices I've got, but I must admit that I am seriously planning to take the Foolproof away, and go on with traditional irons.

Old Sh.

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...don't count out lever guns such as the Winchester Model 88. This rig, chambered to .308 Win, will handle nearly any deer situation.

When using aperture sights I believe that it will ruin your accuracy if you make a conscious effort to line the front sight up in the aperture.

Try to mount the rifle, with a good check weld, the same every time. Then, just look through the aperture but otherwise ignore it. Focus on front sight and target.

For me the reason to go to a small aperture is to allow my poor eyes to focus. If you are shooting tight groups with conventional iron sights you must not have that problem.

My other thought is the front fire sight. Maybe you could put the orginal front sight back on and try it with the aperture. I don't have any reason to believe that it shouldn't work but you have changed two things at once and don't know for sure which change, or both, is causing the problem.

I found the red firesight entirely too bright under bright sunlight. It was a huge red blob that would completely cover a deer's body at 100 yards. IIRC, James Gates found a green firesight was better. I went back to the small gold bead sight. The .093" aperture is about right for me.

Bye
Jack

My hat is off to anyone who can shoot (factory) open sights well. My grandfather never used anything else and he was a crack shot until age took the edge off his eyesight. He only shot .22 LR in cheap, single-shot bolt guns from the likes of Western Auto or Firestone stores. But he was good enough to shoot a squirrel in the neck so that the brains and all the meat were still edible.

More power to you with the open sights!

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WyoStillhunter
"Hunt close, then get closer."

The "trick" to shoot with a peep on a levergun is head position. Your head should be in the same place everytime. If you can mount the gun and position your head the same everytime you'll see a huge improvement in your groups.

I put a "kisser button" (large brass appolstery tack) on the stock of my Guide Gun. I put the button in the corner of my mouth - just like I do when bow hunting. Works for me.

With most shooters - when using aperture, or peep sights, you will naturally "center" the front post as you sight through the aperture itself, so they are usually fasture to acquire a target and they are more accurate than open sights.

Regards, Vic

You seem to approaching the problem from the back side. For close range hunting in darker light, you want a wide aperture with your Firesight front. For nice groups from a bench, you want a small aperture with a small to medium width square blade front sight. The square blade gives definition to both windage and elevation while the "glow" from the Firesight does the opposite. For me, the best compromise for both purposes has been the standard aperture peep with an XS white stripe ramped front blade. I can hunt about as late as the average scope user, but can also shoot bragging sized groups at the range.

I haven't been able to find a fitting sourdough, so I have installed a common bead. I will give that a try, but I have ordered a sougdoug from Brownells. Meanwhile, I have to see how I shoot with the bead. I will come back with a report after haveing been at the range.

Thanks for all your interesting inputs!

Old Sh.

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...don't count out lever guns such as the Winchester Model 88. This rig, chambered to .308 Win, will handle nearly any deer situation.

try skinnersights.com for a white line partridge. might wanna look at their peep system, too. i ended up putting a 4x scope on my marlin for the rest of the bama deer season, but i'm thinking about the skinner system afterwards, or maybe an express type wide V with tritium dots, like on a handgun, and tritium white line partridge up front, on a barrel band.
ah, age ...

When your bead gives you only mediocre accuracy, go here http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...T+FRONT+SIGHTS (page to the bottom) or to skinners.

Today I was at the range and tried the silver bead. It was better than the Firesight - 2 inches @ 100 yards, but I think the Sourdough will be the right thing.

I have taken a look at the XS frontsights. They look quite fine, but are too high for my rifle - the front sight is ramped. I need a low front sight to keep the cheek supported by the stock comb.

Reports about the Sourdough later.

Old Sh.

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...don't count out lever guns such as the Winchester Model 88. This rig, chambered to .308 Win, will handle nearly any deer situation.

my eyes are getting older and worser too.... when using the aperture sight on my rws air rifle the front post in the globe sight is getting harder to see... i found a target aperture in a natchez catalog i'm going to get i think... it says it's a .050 aperture but it has a 1" od instead of 3/8 od and i'm hoping that is the answer..... opinions???????

JJB

If you are saying you are using a post inside a front globe sight I can understand your frustration. When I was shooting competitive smallbore, I used a "floating" aperture inside the globe front sight, centered in the rear aperture. In effect, all you had to do was centre the target inside the front aperture, which was centred in the globe sight houseing which you then centre in the rear sight aperture. Groups under 1/2" at 50m were pretty much the norm for this kind of setup with practice. It does better than most people would believe, better than scopes in many instances.