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  #1  
Old 01-10-2010, 12:14 PM
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Unknown part


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I found this site a couple of days ago and have been searching the lever guns trying to find where a part goes.
I picked up the Winchester 30-30 at a pretty good price, (100.00) a couple of weeks ago, I'm guessing it's a 1980 model, (sr# 3894142), and it was a mess., The barrel looked fine and everything worked. What I did find was a lot of solidified grease and oil on just about every moving part. I doubt it was ever cleaned or even used. I downloaded every thing I could find on the rifle including all the pictures and Howto's and then photographed as much of it as I could. (I knew they were not the easiest to detail strip), before taking it apart. I managed to get every thing back together except of a small curved (spring?). It's about 2"long 1/8" thick with a hook on one end an and offset on the other end. All of my searching failed to come up with that particular piece. I believe I saw it on one of the exploded views but there were no identifying part numbers. It shows it as 20 between 19 and 21 but that's it. I was wondering if anyone here might point me to a site that would have a decent explanation of how and where it attaches.
Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2010, 02:22 PM
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You might try Brownells. They have exploded views with
part numbers and names.

Zeke
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2010, 02:39 PM
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ar10,

Your 94 was made in 1973. I hope this schematic works for you.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/products_new.asp?CatID=7520
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2010, 02:42 PM
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ar10...show me a photo of the part please....
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2010, 12:53 AM
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Uhrich:
That's the exploded view I printed out from gunparts. It's number 20, between 19 and 21. I went through every item they had listed with a picture and couldn't find a thing.
zb:
Already did that over the weekend. I found the exploded view and then tried to find the part. No luck. I am going to call them today to see if they might have a manual, (not owners manual), that shows every detail with parts, more like a gunsmith manual.
Flattop:
I have a good photo of the part, I set up an account with photobucket, uploaded the image, then tried to view it and couldn't. I'm not that literate. I can email it to you if you want..
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/a...nknownpart.jpg
Not sure if this will work but will give it a try.

Last edited by ar10; 01-11-2010 at 02:53 AM. Reason: picture
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2010, 04:57 AM
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.

That is the Carrier Spring. It fits into a long groove in the left side just under the cartridge guide rail. The end that is turn at 90 degrees fits into a hole in the receiver about 3/4 inch below the hole for the lever pin in the bolt. Midway down and 1 1/2 inches from the front of the receiver.
Your cartridge carrier will not function with out it.

.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2010, 05:53 AM
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Smile

thanks.
Once I get that part back in I've got some more questions regarding the reloads for the rifle. Thanks, again
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  #8  
Old 01-13-2010, 10:40 AM
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part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar10 View Post
I found this site a couple of days ago and have been searching the lever guns trying to find where a part goes.
I picked up the Winchester 30-30 at a pretty good price, (100.00) a couple of weeks ago, I'm guessing it's a 1980 model, (sr# 3894142), and it was a mess., The barrel looked fine and everything worked. What I did find was a lot of solidified grease and oil on just about every moving part. I doubt it was ever cleaned or even used. I downloaded every thing I could find on the rifle including all the pictures and Howto's and then photographed as much of it as I could. (I knew they were not the easiest to detail strip), before taking it apart. I managed to get every thing back together except of a small curved (spring?). It's about 2"long 1/8" thick with a hook on one end an and offset on the other end. All of my searching failed to come up with that particular piece. I believe I saw it on one of the exploded views but there were no identifying part numbers. It shows it as 20 between 19 and 21 but that's it. I was wondering if anyone here might point me to a site that would have a decent explanation of how and where it attaches.
Thanks.
It's been a while since I had a lever gun apart but I think it goes in the side of the receiver to kinda help the ejector I think, like I say it's been a while. I'm pretty mechanical with being able to figure them out. I have an schematic at the house and I think I can figure it out. I use a library computer so it would be slow to get back to you for sure.
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2010, 06:56 PM
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Thanks for the replies and the help.
I think I figured it out from Bledsoe's description. The carrier spring does fit into the receiver. The difference I saw was the end with the hook is secured with a small button head screw and screws in from the inside. At least that's how I think it goes in. I have to work at the range this weekend and we have a couple of .30 30's I can look at.
It's been a challenge but I get an LOT of experience stripping a 30 30.

One thing that puzzles me about the the cartridge is the COAL. I reload all my own bullets and I use a Hornady case gauge using the gauge cases from Hornady. On the .30-30 I was using a Nosler RN 150gn bullet. When the bullet was pushed to the lands/groove I pulled it out to check the bullet there was almost 1/4" from the edge of the case to cannalure. I did this same test 4 or 5 times with the same result and can't figure out why there's so much distance.
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2010, 11:00 PM
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If your OAL is correct when the bullet is in the cartridge, you may have purchased a bullet that fits a different model rifle, or even a different caliber rifle. The .308 diameter slug can fit your 30-30, a .308 rifle, and a .30-06 if not more. You may have to cut your own cannelure. There are inexpensive machines that you can find to do this.

Or--your brass is not properly trimmed.
Or--the chamber is long.
Or--the shape of the bullet causes more jump to the lands.
Or--someone else has more knowledge than I, and they can steer you straighter.

Maybe look at a gun shop where they will allow you to compare cannelure cuts on .308 bullets. See if some are made for your configuration.

Last edited by FromTheWoods; 01-13-2010 at 11:05 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2010, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Or--your brass is not properly trimmed.
possible but unlikely. The case came from Hornady and have about 300 .30-30 cases I've picked up from the range, all different manufacturers, and all un-trimmed. None of them seem to be over/under sized.
Quote:
Or--the chamber is long.
That's a possibility, but it would have to come from the factory like that.
Quote:
Or--the shape of the bullet causes more jump to the lands.
I've checked the ogive and bullet OAL, I also load .308 for my AR10B and have some 168gn BTHP match. There's not that much difference in the OAL's. I also measured some of the live NIB .30-30 rounds and they showed up shorter as well
Quote:
Or--someone else has more knowledge than I, and they can steer you straighter.
I could be but After posting I went back and read some of the information on Model 94. I did read one article that seemed to address an issue on the older model 94's about the newer cartridges being shorter than the older models.
I sent an email to Starline, (who seem to be about the only ones that have have cases for the older model rifles and handguns.
I'll try to find the article and post the link.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2010, 03:45 PM
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I'm aware that the .38-55 has two lengths of brass, the older rifles taking the longer case. But I hadn't heard of any other '94's that had varied chamber lengths.

I haven't heard it all though.

http://www.winchestercollector.org
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

These sites have knowledgeable, helpful people who would know what's up with your situation.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2010, 04:10 PM
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[On the .30-30 I was using a Nosler RN 150gn bullet. When the bullet was pushed to the lands/groove I pulled it out to check the bullet there was almost 1/4" from the edge of the case to cannalure. I did this same test 4 or 5 times with the same result and can't figure out why there's so much distance.]

It's that particular bullet - that Nosler, which has an ogive that's shaped much differently than (say) Hornady bullets.
The shape of the Nosler's ogive, when it touches the rifling, puts the base of the Nosler in a different position, relative to the case mouth, than where another make bullet with a differently-shaped ogive would place IT'S base.

Choices, choices, choices .........

Either load the cartridges with the Noslers to a predetermined COAL, crimping in the groove regardless of the bullet seated out far enough to touch the rifling,
or
Roll a cannelure into the Noslers at the point/depth you want to load them for your particuar COAL,
or
Load a different bullet, which has a cannelure in a different position or a differently-shaped ogive.

.
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2010, 04:29 PM
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Rangr44--

Thanks for making it clear.
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
It's that particular bullet - that Nosler, which has an ogive that's shaped much differently than (say) Hornady bullets.
The shape of the Nosler's ogive, when it touches the rifling, puts the base of the Nosler in a different position, relative to the case mouth, than where another make bullet with a differently-shaped ogive would place IT'S base.
I wish I had kept a couple of the factory rounds to check COAL, However I'm not too excited crimping that much lower on the bullet. It looks, (but I haven't measured the difference yet), there's not that much bullet to crimp. I think I'll also knock one of the factory bullets out and get a measurement on it as well.

Also I did print out the documentation from cast bullets. I'm just not sure where I read about the difference. Right now I trying to get a frame built for my two presses so my shop is a little on the messy side.
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2010, 06:17 AM
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FWIW, If I was loading my .30-30, AND wanted to us that Nosler seated out to barely kiss the lands, I would load/shoot a few mags-ful - just to see if there was enough neck tension to keep the cartridges in the magazine from having their bullets pushed deeper into the case(s) by the combination of recoil and mag spring pressure.

If they weren't pushed down, I'd be good to go hunting.

.
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2010, 06:11 AM
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I was at the range yesterday and was happily surprised I got everything back together properly. That "unknown" part I wasn't sure about did its job.
Now for the second part.
While at the Gander Mountain store getting some factory .30 30 ammo I came across 3 boxes of Hornady 150gn RN #3035 for 14.95 per 100, so I grabbed all of them, (typically GM always mismarks their reloading supplies). So after I get my homemade press frame done I'm going to start my reloading again and figure out what the case length and COAL should be. The bullets are listed in my Hornady manual so at least I have a reference to go by.
Thanks for the information everyone. I am now a firm believer the model 94 is not the easiest rifle to detail strip.
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2010, 07:05 AM
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You guys need to understand something - the 94 is NOT a bolt action bench rest rifle. Stop worrying about bullet seating depth and overall length. The Mod 94 30-30 does not care about all that stuff. To function correctly the 94 wants the bullet seated to and crimped into the cannulure. All cases must be trimmed to the same length. That done the COAL should take care of it's self. I would suggest that you check your loads to make sure that they will feed thru the action before you reload more than a few rounds.

All my Winchester 94's (about 70 of them) don't care if the bullet is touching the lands or a quarter of an inch away, the accuracy is the same. In my Bench guns that shoot little bug holes it makes a big difference, but no in these lever guns.

.
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2010, 01:25 PM
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After I tested the rifle Saturday I measured the COAL of the factory rounds and checked them against the Hornady and Noslers. They all showed the same. I loaded 5 blank dummy rounds crimped to the cannalure, identical to the factory rounds, I tend to agree with you. I'm loading 20 test rounds this week and try them next Saturday and see how they work. I don't anticipate any problems.
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  #20  
Old 01-24-2010, 10:35 AM
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"These sites have knowledgeable, helpful people who would know what's up with your situation."

Your saying that this site doesn't have any knowledgeable, helpful people.

The loading manuals and the bullet mfg.'s say crimp into the cannulure on the bullet. Why would you want to crimp anyplace else? What is wrong with the way it is designed?

.











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