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  #1  
Old 02-26-2010, 02:36 AM
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30/30 action, 357Max cartridge?


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Guys,

If I bought a '94 or knock-off in 30/30, would the magazine/action be able to handle the shorter 357Max cartridge? Before buying the gun and replacement barrel, I just want to make sure the action wouldn't jam up all the time because of the shorter, smaller diameter cartridge.
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2010, 05:56 AM
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I won't pretend to know whether the cartridge would work through the 336 action or not. But I will say that I wouldn't bother with a conversion to that cartridge when I could just go out and find one in .35 Remington and know without a doubt that it would work just fine.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2010, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pisgah View Post
I won't pretend to know whether the cartridge would work through the 336 action or not. But I will say that I wouldn't bother with a conversion to that cartridge when I could just go out and find one in .35 Remington and know without a doubt that it would work just fine.
I agree with you completely, but the 35 Remington is not legal for hunting deer, where I live. If it were, I would probably have a variety of other cartridges that I would prefer even more, but I'm stuck with "pistol-chambered rifles". The 357Max is one of the best (easy) options out there. If it will work through a Model '94 that was originally chambered for 30/30, I will start looking to buy one.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:46 AM
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Broom_jm, another suggestion would be to shorten & reform, a .30-30 case, to the same lenght as a 7.62X39 m/m then expand the neck to .357". I couldn't see why this wouldn't work in a Model 94 or Marlin Lever Action.

Last edited by Davers; 02-26-2010 at 07:47 AM. Reason: Additional info.
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:16 AM
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Wasn't there a .35 Herrett? I don't know the dimensions, though.
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Davers View Post
Broom_jm, another suggestion would be to shorten & reform, a .30-30 case, to the same lenght as a 7.62X39 m/m then expand the neck to .357". I couldn't see why this wouldn't work in a Model 94 or Marlin Lever Action.
I've thought about basically making a 357Herrett, just shortening it a little more, to 1.625" from 1.750". That would make it Indiana-legal.
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:24 AM
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That would seem to be a simple course of action.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
I've thought about basically making a 357Herrett, just shortening it a little more, to 1.625" from 1.750". That would make it Indiana-legal.
I believe that would be possible.
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Wasn't there a .35 Herrett? I don't know the dimensions, though.
YEP! It's a shorten .30-30 case necked up to .357". Mainly used in single shot pistols.
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2010, 02:07 PM
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The .357 Herrett has a 1.75" case length. Instead of the .357 Maximum or .357 Herrett, I'd suggest the .375 SuperMag. It is the .375 Winchester shortened to 1.605" and can also be made from the .30-30 (with more work). It should feed thru the '94 action with no problems, easily has power equal to a .44 Magnum with a flatter trajectory and is well-respected for inherent accuracy among silhouette shooters.

Last edited by crossfire; 02-26-2010 at 02:09 PM.
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2010, 02:08 PM
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The 357 Herrett is a bottleneck cartridge. No good for your laws. Find a model 94 Win in 357 mag and an intelligent smith to make it work in the 357 Max.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RugerNo3 View Post
The 357 Herrett is a bottleneck cartridge. No good for your laws. Find a model 94 Win in 357 mag and an intelligent smith to make it work in the 357 Max.
Actually, Indiana is one of the PCR (pistol-chambered rifle) states that does NOT specify a straight-walled case. (Thus the 358GNR wildcat I've been working with, which is a 445SM, necked down.) I believe Michigan does require a straight-walled pistol case be used, but in Indiana the restrictions are simply that the case be no longer than 1.625" and shoot a bullet no smaller than .357".

The .357 Herrett is a very good option, but to be legal, I would have to get a custom reamer made, (and possibly dies?) because I need it to be .125" shorter than the standard specification. With the 357Max, you just use the standard reamer and existing 38Special or 357Mag dies. That's why I was wondering, from a gunsmith's perspective, if the smaller diameter, shorter COL 357Max would run through the magazine/action of a Model 94 originally chambered in 30/30.
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2010, 02:43 PM
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You don't need custom dies and reamers for what you are looking for. Simply use .357 SIG components. A .357 SIG lengthened .750" with a rim can be formed from .375/.38-55 Win brass to give you a 1.615" case. You can use .357 Herrett data for this cartridge as the shoulder will be approx. .030" further forward and .020" larger in diameter than the Herrett.

Last edited by crossfire; 02-26-2010 at 04:42 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2010, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by crossfire View Post
You don't need custom dies and reamers for what you are looking for. Simply use .357 SIG components. A .357 SIG lengthened .750" with a rim can be formed from .375/.38-55 Win brass to give you a 1.615" case. You can use .357 Herrett data for this cartridge as the shoulder will be approx. .030" further forward and .020" larger in diameter than the Herrett.
OK, I "think" you're saying I could use a .357 SIG sizing die and .375 brass, cut to length, and formed into a case that is nearly twice as long as the dies are made to size cartridges for. While I'm not convinced that would work, I kinda get the idea. Where I am REALLY confused is how this negates the need for a custom reamer? How would I get a chamber cut for such a cartridge (which isn't an altogether bad idea, so far...)?
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:20 PM
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Why don't you trim the .357 Herrett brass to the right (Indiana-legal) length, shoot it in the standard chamber, and be done with it? Is is a restriction on the chamber, or ammo?

If they aren't going to stick case gages in the chamber.... then wouldn't that fix the issue, within the rules? Just a thought.
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  #16  
Old 02-27-2010, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Why don't you trim the .357 Herrett brass to the right (Indiana-legal) length, shoot it in the standard chamber, and be done with it? Is is a restriction on the chamber, or ammo?

If they aren't going to stick case gages in the chamber.... then wouldn't that fix the issue, within the rules? Just a thought.
Mike, that's a very good question!

I have thought the same thing, but worry that the restriction may be on the actual CHAMBER size, not the case. It would probably never come into question, but if it did, the fact that I "could" chamber a full-length .357 Herrett case might get me into trouble. I guess you could say I'm avoiding even the very appearance of evil...or, just being a chicken, but I value my hunting rights a great deal and would hate to have them rescinded on such a minor technicality.

I suppose I could be safe, talk to a DNR officer, get a written statement of what is, and what is not, legal. If I had it in writing, the 357 Herrett would be a really good choice. I want to stay within the letter of the law, even if I question the intent?

Still, the 357Max is easier, all the way around, because the case is certainly short enough, they require no fire-forming chores, plus they're very affordable and available. The Max doesn't give as much velocity as the Herrett, but it has better range and trajectory than a standard 44Mag, while creating much less recoil than the 12" slug guns that most deer hunters use, in Indiana.

Is the consensus that a 357 Herrett, shortened to 1.625" (and with bullets loaded long?) would cycle reliably through an unaltered Model '94 action, originally cut for a 30/30? If so, I think I need to revisit that idea more seriously.
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2010, 02:13 PM
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You could just go with my favorite .35, and buy a 1894 Marlin in .44 Mag., and a .357 Mag barrel. re-chamberthe .357 barrel to .357/44 Bain and Davis. Re-place the .44 barrel with the re-chambered 357 barrel. Shortening the mag tube and reshaping the front barrel band will also be necessary. The ballistics are very close to the .35 Remington.

Makes a nice fast handlin, light weight carbine for deer up to Muley's.

(Note Grandson just talked me out of mine, so I guess I will have to buld another one.
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Last edited by M1894; 02-27-2010 at 02:39 PM.
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2010, 05:09 AM
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Have a look at Mcpherson's website. He has a few short rounds that are really quick.

http://www.levergun.com/Marlin/index.html
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:11 AM
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Have a look at Mcpherson's website. He has a few short rounds that are really quick.

http://www.levergun.com/Marlin/index.html
Eric,

Thanks a lot for that link...there are quite a few interesting cartridges listed on that page. Several were wildcats I had wondered about and proof positive that if you can dream it up, someone's probably done it!

Jason
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  #20  
Old 05-02-2010, 10:13 PM
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Not a good idea
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