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  #1  
Old 05-19-2010, 12:55 PM
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Thoughts on the 450 Marlin?


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I didn't want to hijack one of the other threads but I have been pondering the 450 Marlin lately. I can't decide on whether I like the 24" MXLR version or the standard 18.5" tube. Since my shots would likely be less than 150 yards I'm not sure the extra barrel length does a lot and the short version would be much easier to carry through the woods. The cost seems comparable and very reasonable for either so it isn't an issue. But man that MXLR sure is pretty! Quite frankly, I like them both. I know, I know....maybe one this year and the other next!

BTW, after reading this forum a lot and some sound advice from you guys, I got a reloading press for Christmas last year. I am just now working on getting it set up. I like the ballistics of the Hornady 350 grain FP load for the 450 Marlin. I tried the flex-tip stuff in my 336 and it really didn't do much for me so I stuck with the 150 gr Power Points I have used for two decades. Is the 450 Marlin a good candidate for the reloader? I was wondering about bullet selection and perhaps economic efficiency considering the Hornady loads are over $30 a box. It seems like the first two boxes would pay for the dies and 50 rounds or so, so the ROI would be pretty quick.

Thoughts?

Thanks, guys. Love the forum.

Edit: sorry for posting on the rifle forum instead of the lever-action forum. I had not read the other threads related to the similar topic and have already found a lot of useful info. My appreciation in advance for any comments and for those already made in the other threads.
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Last edited by RifleFan; 05-19-2010 at 02:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2010, 03:44 PM
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Don't own a 450, but do have the 458american, I spilt the difference so to speak and settled on a 22" tube, with carefull hand loads i can get fairly close to 458 mag type FPS, but keep it loaded down around the 416 Taylor.

I would think that if your lookin for handyness in packing go with the 18" tube, would be quick as day light in the bush,but if your looking to boost the FPS for large game or maybe reach try the 24"

YOu could all ways hae it cut back later if not to your liking
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2010, 05:26 PM
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Riflefan, I have owned numerous Marlins, long and short. With the exception of my 338 ME, they all have short barrels. The short models just carry better to me. A 450 is not a long range gun and a 18.5 barrel will serve you well and is a handy size. Just my $.02 worth. You will love either one.
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2010, 04:04 AM
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I too own a .458X2" American chambered in an old Remington M-722. I use the following load (42.0 grs/IMR-4198/300 Gr. H.P.) for a couple of reasons: Less recoil, and this is a very accurate load for Deer Hunting out to 150 yards. If you use the 350 or 400 grain bullets get ready for some heavy recoil. I am certain the .450 Marlin can be loaded the same way as the .458X2" American as they are similar except for the wider belt on the .450.
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:42 AM
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Keep in mind that Browning also makes the BLR in .450. It comes in 6 different models too, all with 20" barrel. A good compromise length in my opinion. My BLR is an excellent shooter with both Hornady loads and just a few days ago, it fired a 1.25" group @ 100 yds with a 1-4x20 scope with heavy reticle using the 325gr LE load. The rifle travels with me to Alaska a week from today.

I purchased it prior to the SS/Lam and take-down versions coming out and probably would go one/both of those routes if buying today. Both of them look excellent to my eye. I also own a Marlin 1895/45-70 and .444S. The BLR has a stronger action and is much easier to load and unload than the Marlins. You also have the option of loading pointed bullets with the BLR as well, when you handload. Both my Marlins also give excellent accuracy. Much of gun buying is personal taste. Side by side, the big bore BLR is simply a nicer gun IMHO. I'd simply suggest that you take a gander at a BLR as well, if you're thinking .450.

Last edited by Tnhunter; 05-21-2010 at 06:59 AM.
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2010, 01:56 PM
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Thanks for the replies so far. This is great input.

I don't mind recoil. In fact, I like a hard kicking rifle and feeling the power associated with them. I know, weird, but that's me.

I did look at the BLRs. I have never really had any interest in them but I really like the looks of the BLR Lightweight Stainless model. That is a beautiful rifle. While I haven't really had any previous interest in the BLRs I am a huge Browning fan and know everything with their name on it is quality. I am going to look at them. I also didn't realize they made them in the .450 and the ability to use a wider range of bullets is certainly a consideration. The cost is considerably higher than a Marlin but still seems reasonable.

I am thinking of putting either a fixed 4x scope of a 2x-7x on it regardless of which model I get - leaning more towards the variable because the 4x may be too much inside of 100 yards.
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2010, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RifleFan View Post
Thanks for the replies so far. This is great input.

I don't mind recoil. In fact, I like a hard kicking rifle and feeling the power associated with them. I know, weird, but that's me.

I did look at the BLRs. I have never really had any interest in them but I really like the looks of the BLR Lightweight Stainless model. That is a beautiful rifle. While I haven't really had any previous interest in the BLRs I am a huge Browning fan and know everything with their name on it is quality. I am going to look at them. I also didn't realize they made them in the .450 and the ability to use a wider range of bullets is certainly a consideration. The cost is considerably higher than a Marlin but still seems reasonable.

I am thinking of putting either a fixed 4x scope of a 2x-7x on it regardless of which model I get - leaning more towards the variable because the 4x may be too much inside of 100 yards.
As I said, I wish the SS/Lam model had been around when I bought my BLR as it really is a very nice rifle. I am a big fan of compact scopes on all my lever rifles with the only medium sized scope being a Leupold 2-7x33 30mm on my BLR/.325. I ended up with a Leupold 1.25-4x20 30mm 0n the .450 and it seems to be a great fit for the rifle. With the type game the .450 would normally be used for, the high magnification of 4x is perfectly adequate for a 200 yd shot. Close range shots work very well at low power with both eyes open. I chose the #4 reticle and think it's great for hunting.
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2010, 07:44 AM
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I think the 450 is a great candidate for hand loading. With a sole source of loaded ammo, the high prices ammo commands, and the ready availability of projectiles; what could be better? I don't have a 450, but if its as easy and satisfying to hand load as the 45-70, you will have a lot of fun building ammo for it.

Andy
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  #9  
Old 05-22-2010, 02:57 PM
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[Thoughts on the 450 Marlin?]

BT/DT/NTS.

It seems like I've always had at least one .45-70, since the early 1970's, but I too got excited when the .450 Marlin was introduced - and when Winchester chambered their BigBore94 Timber for it, I HAD to have one.

Soooooo, I sold my then-current .45-70, and bought the .450M Timber.

After using it for about a year, I realized the cartridge wasn't as flexible as the .45-70 has had always been - so sold the BB94 Timber, went back to another .45-70, and never looked back,

.
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  #10  
Old 05-23-2010, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RifleFan View Post
I didn't want to hijack one of the other threads but I have been pondering the 450 Marlin lately. I can't decide on whether I like the 24" MXLR version or the standard 18.5" tube. Since my shots would likely be less than 150 yards I'm not sure the extra barrel length does a lot and the short version would be much easier to carry through the woods. The cost seems comparable and very reasonable for either so it isn't an issue. But man that MXLR sure is pretty! Quite frankly, I like them both. I know, I know....maybe one this year and the other next!

BTW, after reading this forum a lot and some sound advice from you guys, I got a reloading press for Christmas last year. I am just now working on getting it set up. I like the ballistics of the Hornady 350 grain FP load for the 450 Marlin. I tried the flex-tip stuff in my 336 and it really didn't do much for me so I stuck with the 150 gr Power Points I have used for two decades. Is the 450 Marlin a good candidate for the reloader? I was wondering about bullet selection and perhaps economic efficiency considering the Hornady loads are over $30 a box. It seems like the first two boxes would pay for the dies and 50 rounds or so, so the ROI would be pretty quick.

Thoughts?

Thanks, guys. Love the forum.

Edit: sorry for posting on the rifle forum instead of the lever-action forum. I had not read the other threads related to the similar topic and have already found a lot of useful info. My appreciation in advance for any comments and for those already made in the other threads.

The .450 potentially has some advantage over the .45-70 , for some one that does not reload ( although you can buy some HOT .45-70 loads , I think , if you order them ? ) .

For thr reloader , the .450 offers very few advantages over the .45-70 .

I can not think of anything a hot .45-70 can not take down , in North America ? Or 90% of the world ?

But it is your $$$ , so , enjoy . Barrel length is not going yo effect how dead your critter is ! :-)

God bless
Wyr
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  #11  
Old 05-23-2010, 01:29 PM
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I have a question about reloading and the difference between the .45-70 and the .450.

Ok, please keep in mind that while I am an experienced hunter and shooter, I am a very novice hand-loader (meaning I just got a press and haven't loaded one bullet yet! ) so bear with me if you will.

If you can load a 45-70 hot and do just about anything a 450 can do (which is the consensus opinion), can't you safely load down the 450 just the same? I am curious as to what you can do hand-loading the 45-70 that you can't do with the 450? Also, what would be the reasoning behind having to load one "hot" to get the performance of another? Wouldn't it be just as easy to get the one with the performance level you want anyway? I would consider the 45-70 but I am just trying to find out the true advantage it has over the 450 Marlin assuming a person is loading their own ammo.
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2010, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RifleFan View Post
I have a question about reloading and the difference between the .45-70 and the .450.

Ok, please keep in mind that while I am an experienced hunter and shooter, I am a very novice hand-loader (meaning I just got a press and haven't loaded one bullet yet! ) so bear with me if you will.

If you can load a 45-70 hot and do just about anything a 450 can do (which is the consensus opinion), can't you safely load down the 450 just the same? I am curious as to what you can do hand-loading the 45-70 that you can't do with the 450? Also, what would be the reasoning behind having to load one "hot" to get the performance of another? Wouldn't it be just as easy to get the one with the performance level you want anyway? I would consider the 45-70 but I am just trying to find out the true advantage it has over the 450 Marlin assuming a person is loading their own ammo.

You can look at it that way . Same bullets , same primer , close to the same powder ( for hot loads , at least ) .

But , I think you will find both .45-70 brass and maybe loaded ammo , are more readily available / cheaper .

Plus , there is the " fun " of shooting a caliber over 100 years old . :-)

And , if you ever want to sell the rifle , you may find a greater demand / price for the .45-70 ?

God bless
Wyr
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  #13  
Old 05-23-2010, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RifleFan View Post
I have a question about reloading and the difference between the .45-70 and the .450.

Ok, please keep in mind that while I am an experienced hunter and shooter, I am a very novice hand-loader (meaning I just got a press and haven't loaded one bullet yet! ) so bear with me if you will.

If you can load a 45-70 hot and do just about anything a 450 can do (which is the consensus opinion), can't you safely load down the 450 just the same? I am curious as to what you can do hand-loading the 45-70 that you can't do with the 450? Also, what would be the reasoning behind having to load one "hot" to get the performance of another? Wouldn't it be just as easy to get the one with the performance level you want anyway? I would consider the 45-70 but I am just trying to find out the true advantage it has over the 450 Marlin assuming a person is loading their own ammo.
Loading down a cartridge meant to work at higher pressures is not as easy as one might think. When a primer ignites the powder in a given case, and pressure starts to build, it is crucial for the case to expand and form a very tight seal, with the chamber. A round like the 45/70, which was originally designed for lower pressures, works quite well when loaded "down". The case dimensions and brass characteristics are such they they will seal well. Some "magnum" cases won't expand and seal the chamber properly, if loaded too light...this is usually evidenced by a sooty residue around the case mouth and sometimes a pierced primer, where the case was set back hard against the breech or bolt face, rather than adhering to the chamber walls.

So, a 45/70 can be loaded up in a modern, well-built firearm, but loading down a 450 Marlin to powder-puff 45/70 levels can be problematic.
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RifleFan View Post
I have a question about reloading and the difference between the .45-70 and the .450.

Ok, please keep in mind that while I am an experienced hunter and shooter, I am a very novice hand-loader (meaning I just got a press and haven't loaded one bullet yet! ) so bear with me if you will.

If you can load a 45-70 hot and do just about anything a 450 can do (which is the consensus opinion), can't you safely load down the 450 just the same? I am curious as to what you can do hand-loading the 45-70 that you can't do with the 450? Also, what would be the reasoning behind having to load one "hot" to get the performance of another? Wouldn't it be just as easy to get the one with the performance level you want anyway? I would consider the 45-70 but I am just trying to find out the true advantage it has over the 450 Marlin assuming a person is loading their own ammo.
I would expect that to work fine. Compare the case capacities of .450 and .45-70 brass. They should be very, very close.

While you can't just take any random powder and expect good results with reduced loads, the most popular combinations in the .45-70 should be a good starting place. There are a number of powers intended for light loads in any size case (ie Trail Boss) if you want the very low end.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:10 PM
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[ I have a question about reloading and the difference between the .45-70 and the .450.]

[If you can load a 45-70 hot and do just about anything a 450 can do, can't you safely load down the 450 just the same? I am curious as to what you can do hand-loading the 45-70 that you can't do with the 450? ]


It's like this:

Since the .45-70's been in existance for over 100 years, factory loads were kept to "low" pressure levels, due to the fear that higher performance loads would be chambered/shot in some 100 year old/weak designs.

SO, .45-70 shooters wanting performance prior to the creation of the likes of CorBon/BuffaloBore/etc had to handload for high performance.

Around Y2K, Marlin/Hornady got together, to give the non-reloading shooter performance like handloaded .45-70 ammo in factory ammo - so they came up with the .450 Marlin's belted case, to preclude stuffing it into a potentially weaker/older .45-70 rifle.

The question is not whether or not each cartridge can be loaded stronger/weaker than the other - they can be loaded to be ballistic twins.

The question REALLY is: ammo/case availability.

The .45-70's been available for a looooong time, and there's usually some ammo available virtually everywhere - which cannot be said of the .450M.

As a test case, walk into 10 different stores than usually stock guns/ammo, and list the availability of each ammo type.

Yes, we all know anyone can "stock up", before a hunting trip, etc - but whaddyado, if your ammo gets ruined or lost in transit, and you are in East Whistlestop ?

.

Last edited by Rangr44; 05-23-2010 at 06:13 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-24-2010, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I would expect that to work fine. Compare the case capacities of .450 and .45-70 brass. They should be very, very close.

While you can't just take any random powder and expect good results with reduced loads, the most popular combinations in the .45-70 should be a good starting place. There are a number of powers intended for light loads in any size case (ie Trail Boss) if you want the very low end.
My standard light load for .45-70 300 - 405 grain bullet is 13.6 grains of Unique for ~ 1150 fps w/ 405 grain bullet .

God bless
Wyr
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  #17  
Old 05-24-2010, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangr44 View Post
[ I have a question about reloading and the difference between the .45-70 and the .450.]

[If you can load a 45-70 hot and do just about anything a 450 can do, can't you safely load down the 450 just the same? I am curious as to what you can do hand-loading the 45-70 that you can't do with the 450? ]


It's like this:

Since the .45-70's been in existance for over 100 years, factory loads were kept to "low" pressure levels, due to the fear that higher performance loads would be chambered/shot in some 100 year old/weak designs.

SO, .45-70 shooters wanting performance prior to the creation of the likes of CorBon/BuffaloBore/etc had to handload for high performance.

Around Y2K, Marlin/Hornady got together, to give the non-reloading shooter performance like handloaded .45-70 ammo in factory ammo - so they came up with the .450 Marlin's belted case, to preclude stuffing it into a potentially weaker/older .45-70 rifle.

The question is not whether or not each cartridge can be loaded stronger/weaker than the other - they can be loaded to be ballistic twins.

The question REALLY is: ammo/case availability.

The .45-70's been available for a looooong time, and there's usually some ammo available virtually everywhere - which cannot be said of the .450M.

As a test case, walk into 10 different stores than usually stock guns/ammo, and list the availability of each ammo type.

Yes, we all know anyone can "stock up", before a hunting trip, etc - but whaddyado, if your ammo gets ruined or lost in transit, and you are in East Whistlestop ?

.
Precisely .

God bless
Wyr
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  #18  
Old 06-02-2010, 05:36 AM
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RifleFan,

My experience with leverguns is limited to .30-30, .35 Rem., and .444 Marlin. I have reloaded for practice and hunting for over 40 years but I am not a reloading expert. I load to shoot. I don't load to load.

My take on the .450 is that it is ideal for the non-reloader who wants maximum punch from an off-the-shelf levergun. You have a .30-30 you can reload for and get lots of economical practice. Set up the .450 and .30-30 with same sights, similar barrel lengths, etc. Shoot the thunder out of the .30-30, buy a box or two of .450 each year for a little practice right before hunting season, and you have the best of both worlds.

You said you enjoy recoil. Seems wierd to me but I take your word for it. Just know that the .450 will knock the $not out of the average shooter. That is why I see so many of them for sale in pawn shops.

If you want your big bore levergun to be a reloading hobby gun get a Marlin .444 or .45-70. You will never run out of different loads to try and you can actually enjoy shooting them with loads that are a little under full power.

I have killed antelope, deer, and elk with my 22" Marlin 444S (1977). But if I wanted a shorter, more powerful elk gun I would consider a .450 and I wouldn't bother reloading for it. One box of ammo per year would be all I needed for practice and hunting.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangr44 View Post
[ I have a question about reloading and the difference between the .45-70 and the .450.]

[If you can load a 45-70 hot and do just about anything a 450 can do, can't you safely load down the 450 just the same? I am curious as to what you can do hand-loading the 45-70 that you can't do with the 450? ]


It's like this:

Since the .45-70's been in existance for over 100 years, factory loads were kept to "low" pressure levels, due to the fear that higher performance loads would be chambered/shot in some 100 year old/weak designs.

SO, .45-70 shooters wanting performance prior to the creation of the likes of CorBon/BuffaloBore/etc had to handload for high performance.

Around Y2K, Marlin/Hornady got together, to give the non-reloading shooter performance like handloaded .45-70 ammo in factory ammo - so they came up with the .450 Marlin's belted case, to preclude stuffing it into a potentially weaker/older .45-70 rifle.

The question is not whether or not each cartridge can be loaded stronger/weaker than the other - they can be loaded to be ballistic twins.

The question REALLY is: ammo/case availability.

The .45-70's been available for a looooong time, and there's usually some ammo available virtually everywhere - which cannot be said of the .450M.

As a test case, walk into 10 different stores than usually stock guns/ammo, and list the availability of each ammo type.

Yes, we all know anyone can "stock up", before a hunting trip, etc - but whaddyado, if your ammo gets ruined or lost in transit, and you are in East Whistlestop ?

.
Good post, Rangr44. Either cartridge will do anything that the other does for the handloader. I prefer the 45-70 for ammo and reloading component availability.

.
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Old 06-05-2010, 04:43 PM
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450 Marlin

The advantages of using the 450 Marlin instead of the 45/70 are several, the brass is capable of long term use at higher pressures, the belt keeps the cartridge from being chambered in the incorrect chamber. SAFTEY FIRST

A bolt gun can be chambered for 450 Marlin and use 500 grain projectiles at nominal pressures of aroung 60,000 PSI. The 45/70 in an Enfield or Simese Mauser and a standard large ring Mauser in 450 Marlin are close, the 450 Marlin is about 100 FPS faster.

Loading data for the 450 Marlin can be duplicated from the 458 x 2 (available if the book cartridges of the world) which is what the 450 Marlin is with a belt .
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