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  #1  
Old 07-24-2010, 05:56 PM
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Would You Be "Comfortable" Hunting With This...?


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Friends,
Would you be "comfortable" hunting all North American
game with the Winchester model 94 chambered for
the 30-30 cartridge? Premium factory loaded ammo is
now available for this classic round...deep penetrating
bullets made with harder lead and thicker jackets.
Anyway, do you believe that modern bullets make a
difference with this old round to the extent that it
is now "clearly" more "suitable" for our largest game
animals?

Sincerely,
Timberwolf
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2010, 06:18 PM
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I think the 30-30 in the original loadings has probably taken more game than any of us can imagine. Depending on my hunting style I would be comfortable using a 30-30. Most of the areas I hunt in result in shots under 100yds and the 30-30 would work just fine. I certainly wouldn't want to try it out at long cross-the-valley type shots.
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2010, 06:19 PM
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Range and bullet placement are what count. The natives of Alaska and Canada have taken their share with it and smaller rounds. I would use it for all game in North A. Maybe we would turn into real hunters instead of shooters if we all used the little 30.
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  #4  
Old 07-25-2010, 06:24 PM
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I would have to be UN-comfortable (ie very hungry!) to consciously choose the 30/30 for hunting game larger than deer or wild hogs. That is largely because I have better options. If the 30/30 was my only option, then I would hunt closer to whatever game I hoped to feed myself and my family with, and then use it with confidence, because it has clearly answered this question tens of thousands of times, already! I might also mention that it did so long before premium or flex-tip ammo became available! I would still never feel entirely comfortable hunting a large bear with a 30/30.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2010, 08:57 PM
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Lots of people who wouldn't balk at a 100 yard shot on big game with a .44 mag or the like will scoff at a 30/30 as being too light for the same situation. In reality, the 30/30 in 170 grain loadings towers over most handgun cartridge loads in energy. I know there are substantial differences in the effects of large-diameter heavy hunks of lead compared to the 170 grain flat point going around 2200 fps in the 30/30, but for all intents and purposes a 30/30 is nothing to trifle with inside of 150 yards. I took my first elk with a 30/30, and numerous deer. I think it will handle anything on this continent, but I must say that if I used one for big bear, or moose, I'd keep the range inside 100 yards and use a hard solid flat point bullet. Like the previous poster, I would select something else for anything over deer size, but I would be "comfortable" with the 30/30 if I had to use it. It would definitely make a real hunter out of you on sheep.
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2010, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclepaddy View Post
Lots of people who wouldn't balk at a 100 yard shot on big game with a .44 mag or the like will scoff at a 30/30 as being too light for the same situation. In reality, the 30/30 in 170 grain loadings towers over most handgun cartridge loads in energy.
As a matter of fact, the original Win '92 was released in 44-40, a low pressure BP round that took it's share of deer, bear, and elk. The 44-40 is a weak sister to both the 357 and 44mags as well as the 30-30. Hunted up close, the 30-30 is sufficient for all North American game although there are more powerful rounds that increase the safety of hunting something dangerous. As far as the 30-30 towering over the 357mag, Buffalo Bore makes a 158grn 357mag rd that rivals the 30-30 in a carbine. It's rated at 2,153fps in an 18.5" barrel, mighty close to your 170grn 30-30 numbers above.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2010, 05:26 PM
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3 Win 94's in the house, 2 of them are 30-30's and the third is an old 32 Win Spcl. My vote is yup, they is fine guns. Got a black bear to my credit with the 32 Win Spcl but either 30-30 would have done just as well. I have a large stock of factory 150 gr SP for the 30's and 170 gr for the Win Spcl plus I cast my own 32's. I suppose the newer bullets might have an advantage but I'm an old dinosaur shooting dinosaur guns and they have worked just fine from Great Grandpa on up to today.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2010, 06:02 PM
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To be honest, I can think of two critters I have shot with a rifle in the last 15 years that the .30-30 might have had issues with. One was a mule deer in Colorado that I shot with a .280 Rem a long, long, long.... long way off. It dropped on the spot, but mostly luck I think. On the other hand I wouldn't have tried the shot with a .30-30 either.

The other was a 275 lb. hog and I don't know how the .30-30 would have fared. To be honest the hog fell to a .257 Roberts (and fairly precise bullet placement) so perhaps that doesn't prove much?

Have killed two bison... but with a handgun... so I suppose under the circumstances a .30-30 should have handled that. Backed up a guy shooting a rather mean-tempered buff/brahma cross with my .458 Win Mag.... but he got the bull in two shots and I didn't fire. Suppose that could have been ugly.

Every whitetail I've ever shot could have fallen to the .30-30, and the .30-30 could have done a better job on a couple of them. Hogs? You never know with hogs, but I've lost them with more powerful chamberings.
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2010, 12:07 AM
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Question Comfortable?

I hope this photo comes through, since this is the first time I've tried it here. Anyhow, the previous poster reminded me of this pig I shot with a .264 Win Mag. This is one of the more spectacular bullet failures I've ever experienced. It was a 140 grain Hornady softpoint, at about 100 yards broadside into this pig's shoulder. When the bullet hit, it made a sound just like slamming the door on my brother's Mercedes Benz. The pig squeeled and took off uphill, and I shot it in the back again, and my partner nearly simultaneously did the same with a .300 Win mag.. It went down hard then. We had to cut the thing up hastily and get out before dark, but here is the photo of the armor as it tapered away from the shoulder (Shoulder cut off) area. My left hand is in there, and there are two knuckles bent across the white armor covering, which makes it about two inches thick. (I always thought the stories of armor on pigs were total B.S. until I shot this one, at about 400 pounds.) I recovered the bullet and bits and pieces of it, from the shoulder I had removed. In other words, it never made it inside the rib cage. So, could a 30/30 do it? Maybe so, if it had a decent bullet, but who knows?
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Would You Be "Comfortable" Hunting With This...?-pig-shoulder-armor.jpg  
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  #10  
Old 07-27-2010, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COSteve View Post
As a matter of fact, the original Win '92 was released in 44-40, a low pressure BP round that took it's share of deer, bear, and elk. The 44-40 is a weak sister to both the 357 and 44mags as well as the 30-30. Hunted up close, the 30-30 is sufficient for all North American game although there are more powerful rounds that increase the safety of hunting something dangerous. As far as the 30-30 towering over the 357mag, Buffalo Bore makes a 158grn 357mag rd that rivals the 30-30 in a carbine. It's rated at 2,153fps in an 18.5" barrel, mighty close to your 170grn 30-30 numbers above.
Yeah, I know there are some thumpers out there, but my point is that many handgun hunters are stretching the limits of lethality and at the same time calling a 30/30 marginal when more often than not it would have more going for it in the same situation. Quite often, a handgun hunting load in a carbine is a whole new animal in terms of performance when compared to the same load in a typical revolver.
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  #11  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:34 AM
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"..many handgun hunters are stretching the limits of lethality and at the same time calling a 30/30 marginal.."

That's hilariously silly! I'd feel far better armed with a .30-30 with conventional 170 gr. bullets than any handgun cartridge made.

I love my handguns and don't 'specially love the .30-30 but I can see daylight without a brown halo.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2010, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMBERWOLF View Post
Friends,
Would you be "comfortable" hunting all North American
game with the Winchester model 94 chambered for
the 30-30 cartridge? Premium factory loaded ammo is
now available for this classic round...deep penetrating
bullets made with harder lead and thicker jackets.
Anyway, do you believe that modern bullets make a
difference with this old round to the extent that it
is now "clearly" more "suitable" for our largest game
animals?

Sincerely,
Timberwolf
Comfortable for all N.A. game, not at all. I know all the stories about the 30/30 being able to do "whatever" with the right shot placement and man behind the gun. I say why would any hunter look beyond deer or deer-sized game with a 30/30 today when there are a lot of better (yes, they are better!) cartridges available to use. Do you want to prove a point? Want to claim that because it will ultimately kill a large animal that this is proper? I believe in killing an animal with minimal suffering. I also believe that an animal that has run 200 yds after a "killing" shot suffered more than an animal that dropped in it's tracks, dead.

If someone likes the older classic cartridges why argue over 12 yrs in a 100+ year window. Use the 30/06 because it is a better killer on large animals. Want older? Use a 45-70. Do whatever you all want, legally. It matters not to me. I prefer to use a proper caliber for a proper job. Perhaps you'd like to use a bow and arrow. Maybe, use a wooden bow and arrows. Use a rawhide string on your bow and arrow?? Heck, just use a hole and stones I reckon....

Yes, questions like this one do indeed confuse me. I can assure you there is no offense meant to the original poster. Simply my honest answer to the original question.
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  #13  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:43 PM
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A hunting rifle is more than just the cartridge it fires. It is also or perhaps mostly the way it handles and shoots. Most of us have grown up on Jack O'Connor and even Townsend Whelen and other more modern writers. All have been primarily bolt action men.

The truth of the matter is that my M94 carbine in .30-30 handles better than any bolt action, pump or autoloader I have ever used. While I can hit small targets at long distance with my other rifles, I can bring my aperture sighted M94 to bear more quickly accurately inside 150yds than I can any other rifle I have ever used. Part of the reason is the mild recoil of the .30-30. While I have never shot anything larger than deer with my .30-30 I have seen moose that went over 1,000lbs taken with .30-30's without difficulty. It just plain works. Penetration or effectiveness has never been a problem with any of the traditional bullets with this cartridge out to ranges farther than most of us would shoot. Medium slow bullets seem to just be that way.

Personally, I can hit with confidence out to 200 yds with 150 and 170 gr factory ammo and my own hard cast lead 172gr loads. While I wouldn't want to use it to stop a charging polar or kodiak bear there really isn't anything short of a .470 NE double that I would want to be out there with in the first place.
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:29 AM
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I guess a few of you have said it. The 30/30 is a fine cartridge, but there is so much
out there that you can use now days. Why go after really big game with a 30/30? Even
the good old 30/06 is a better choice. If I was after big bears or even moose I would
rather have a larger caliber gun.

Zeke
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:41 AM
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Will the 30-30 take any north american game? Yes with proper bullet placement. Would I be comfortable doing it? No. Especially on any game that could maul me if I made a bad shot. As I get older, I run slower and heal slower.....
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:04 AM
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For my next grizzly hunt, I'm taking DOK and kdub as backup gunners, and arming myself with a .17 pellet rifle
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodum View Post
Will the 30-30 take any north american game? Yes with proper bullet placement. Would I be comfortable doing it? No. Especially on any game that could maul me if I made a bad shot. As I get older, I run slower and heal slower.....
That's why I try to only hunt with fellas a few years older and several pounds heavier than I.....
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:35 AM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
For my next grizzly hunt, I'm taking DOK and kdub as backup gunners, and arming myself with a .17 pellet rifle

Better hope that DOK is packing some thing with a large bore, as kdub will be backing you up with a 6.5 Swede. And don't forget Old Large people can run fast with proper incentive.
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  #19  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:42 AM
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30-30 is a KEEPER!

TR
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  #20  
Old 07-28-2010, 03:38 PM
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"All North American game"??

No way.

There's a few critters that can get to you and chew or stomp on you in less than the time it takes a well-placed heart/lung shot with any gun to make them expire. There are also critters that can run to somewhere you do not want to have to bring them out of in the same amount of time with the same shot placement.

Some beasts need to be broken down right where they stand so as to not make the hunt any more "exciting" than it needs to be.

My "no go" list for the great old thutty-thutty would include bears, hogs (of the large variety), elk, moose, bison, sheep and goats.
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