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  #1  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:42 PM
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Model 1895 recoil


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Howdy,

I really love my new Marlin 1895 in .45-70, but the recoil with the Hornady Leverevolution rounds really hurt me when I shoot them. Standard reloads don't really bother me that much, but I really like the ballistics of that Hornady round. I even tried a boot but it slips really bad so I don't use it now. I am thinking about having a recoil reducer installed, or may try doing it myself. Anyone have any experience with these recoil reducers, and how hard are they to install?

Thanks,

longrangehunter
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:49 AM
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Well, here's the thing -- you have a light rifle with a skinny buttstock firing a big, powerful cartridge. Regardless of what you add to it, it is going to kick.

I am not a fan of recoil reducers. They can be tricky to install, they are expensive, and if the truth be told I believe most of their recoil-reducing effect comes from the considerable added weight they contribute.

IMO, the best thing to add to make recoil more tolerable is a quality butt pad. With the stock shortened to allow for the extra inch the pad will add, and the pad properly installed, it won't add much at all to the weight but will do a heckuva lot to make things more manageable.
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2010, 06:47 AM
bsn bsn is offline
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A good recoil pad is all you really need, try some stout handloads in that gun if you want to expeirence recoil.
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2010, 06:59 AM
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Longrangehunter,
I don't agree with pisgah about muzzle brakes. I have two sons one with a .300 Weatherby
and one with a .340 Weatherby. Both of their guns have muzzle brakes and they really work. The .340 came
that way from the factory and with the .300 we had the brake installed by a gunsmith. Both guns are pussycats
to shoot. The .300 really wacked you before the brake was installed. Now, in your case, you will be taking an
old fashioned gun and putting a brake onto it or a recoil pad and it would really hurt the collector value. Especially the brake.
Zeke
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2010, 08:25 AM
DOK DOK is offline
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You may wish to use the search capability for past threads on this subject...such as this one:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread....895+recoil+pad
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2010, 09:43 AM
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>I don't agree with pisgah about muzzle brakes.

I never mentioned muzzle brakes. I was talking recoil reducers -- different critters altogether.

But muzzlebrakes aren't all that great, either. They do not reduce recoil, merely redirect the recoil impulse a bit and make it more straight-back than back-and-up. At the same time, they redirect the blast, too, much more directly in to your face.

The Marlin Guide Guns, of course, were originally issued with porting (muzzle brakes), and it is more than a coincidence that they no longer do so. Lots and lots of folks did not like them.

The best (and least expensive) option is a good pad, in the long run.
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2010, 11:53 AM
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Marlin Model 1895 recoil

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOK View Post
You may wish to use the search capability for past threads on this subject...such as this one:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread....895+recoil+pad
Thanks to Pisgah and DOK, I think I will go with the new recoil pad and use reduced loads. One of the men on that other site you sent me to referred to the old black powder loads they used to kill buffalo. That is what really did it. Bad enough for buffler is bad enough for anything I will run into around here. Thanks again!

longrangehunter
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2010, 12:10 PM
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I put a Pachmayr Decellerator recoil pad on my 1895 and it tamed the recoil of stout loads quite well. I was shooting PMC+P 350 grain jacketed flatpoints that were really brutal. Nowadays I load 400 grain cast bullets at a moderate velocity ( which is all you really need for this cartridge ), and recoil is very managable. That black pad really makes the rifle look sharp.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2010, 12:33 PM
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Model 1895 recoil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarin' 54 View Post
I put a Pachmayr Decellerator recoil pad on my 1895 and it tamed the recoil of stout loads quite well. I was shooting PMC+P 350 grain jacketed flatpoints that were really brutal. Nowadays I load 400 grain cast bullets at a moderate velocity ( which is all you really need for this cartridge ), and recoil is very managable. That black pad really makes the rifle look sharp.
Thanks! That was what I was looking at in Brownells catalog a few days ago when I also looked at recoil reducers. Now all I need is to find a decent gunsmith who can install it properly. I keep hearing about a new one near Salem, VA. Guess it's time to take a short trip and find him. I happen to have two boxes of the 350 grain bullets you described by Hornady and some 500 grain bullets from Montana Precision Swaging. Think I'll check out the old loads for the 500's. I suspect that the loads listed for the old Rolling Block Springfield should shoot really mild. Even with a light lever action. After I get the new recoil pad I'll try the heavier loads with the 350 grain jacketed flatpoints.

longrangehunter
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2010, 01:13 PM
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Wow Salem Va. is my hometown. Send me the name of that gunsmith so I can check him out the next time I'm in town.
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  #11  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:46 PM
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I wonder if he is talking about Richards Custom Rifles In Vinton
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  #12  
Old 09-17-2010, 09:28 PM
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Marlin 1895 Recoil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarin' 54 View Post
Wow Salem Va. is my hometown. Send me the name of that gunsmith so I can check him out the next time I'm in town.
Sorry, I don't even know his name. A friend of mine told me about him so I'll have to ask him before I go anyway. So I'll get back to you with that name. And to the other writer, no, he isn't in Vinton. That's the other side of Roanoke. Too far for me to drive in the summer heat! (no AC in my Bronco II)

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  #13  
Old 09-20-2010, 08:01 AM
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Recoil pad

Cousin of mine has a Limbsaver recoil pad on his & it seems to help .

God bless
Wyr
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  #14  
Old 09-20-2010, 12:31 PM
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I went with the Pachymeyer decelerator on my Guide gun. It worked well, and did not need fitting [well not that much]. easy to install, and saved my shoulder.
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2010, 01:17 PM
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you can also try a past recoil pad. this goes on your shoulder not the gun so the install is a more manageable and doesn't hurt the resale value of the gun. I got one to use with my 300 win mag and like it so much I use it for the 1895 XLR now too. It works grand. I don't even feel the recoil in the shoulder anymore. really extends the comfort level of the range session allowing me to shoot more than I used to.
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  #16  
Old 09-26-2010, 09:06 AM
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Wink Ideas on the 45-70.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zb338 View Post
Longrangehunter,
I don't agree with pisgah about muzzle brakes. I have two sons one with a .300 Weatherby
and one with a .340 Weatherby. Both of their guns have muzzle brakes and they really work. The .340 came
that way from the factory and with the .300 we had the brake installed by a gunsmith. Both guns are pussycats
to shoot. The .300 really wacked you before the brake was installed. Now, in your case, you will be taking an
old fashioned gun and putting a brake onto it or a recoil pad and it would really hurt the collector value. Especially the brake.
Zeke
Not sure of too many folks buy new Marlin 1895s for their possible future collector's value, but you never know... I used an 1895 with the longer early bbl (24") on grizzly and black bears in northern BC, Canada. It turned out to be the decisive bear stopper given the right loads (see below).

It kicked like heck, so I fitted a Pachmyer recoil pad, and that was a great improvement. A magna-porting option would re-direct some of that energy at the moment of muzzle exit, but it adds considerably to the muzzle blast. Not the best compromise, IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longrangehunter View Post
Thanks! That was what I was looking at in Brownells catalog a few days ago when I also looked at recoil reducers.

I happen to have two boxes of the 350 grain bullets you described by Hornady and some 500 grain bullets from Montana Precision Swaging. Think I'll check out the old loads for the 500's. I suspect that the loads listed for the old Rolling Block Springfield should shoot really mild. Even with a light lever action. After I get the new recoil pad I'll try the heavier loads with the 350 grain jacketed flatpoints.

longrangehunter
Problem is the overall cartridge length limitations of the "new" Marlin. (the origi8nal 1895s had, apparently, longer receivers). It generally won't accept anything over a 350 - 400 gr bullet. Even the hot CorBon 45-70 loads have a very squat bullet shape to allow them to just barely fit in there. I once tried 500gr jacketed rounds, but had to remove the lever to get them in, ditto to unload an unfired round. BTW, when I touched off that round, the recoil dislocated the for-end stock piece! Vicious!

It's really too bad that Marllin didn't shorten the 450 Hornady Magnum about 1/8" to allow longer bullets. There still would have been lots of cartridge length. Say; this wouldn't stop anyone from doing that, now would it? A sort of reductionist wildcat? Just trim the case back soz the o/a length would be equivalent to the existing 45-70 limits in the Marlin, then load it up to whatever pressure & velocity you find is safe? I claim the idea: The 45 DownRanger Magnum. Sounds great!

Meantime, I'd stick with 350 - 380 gr jacketed bullets for even the largest bears. PS: I've shot 28 blacks, some of which were on a rampage, and 2 grizz (same sitch), and one polar bear that was after me for brunch. The pb went down to my 340 Weatherby (which was originally named the 340 Polar Bear by old Roy Weatherby, BTW...); the rest mostly to that Marlin.

Frankly, I have no desire to kill any more bears, but at least I learned, first-hand, what does work....

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  #17  
Old 09-26-2010, 10:20 AM
DOK DOK is offline
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I've never had a muzzle brake on a rifle, but did have on several handguns, one being a .44 mag Redhawk. I had a friend with an identical Redhawk except no muzzle break, and when shooting them, one after the other, I couldn't tell any difference in felt recoil. The muzzle brake did help hold the barrel down which was the advantage I was after, not recoil reduction.

I purchased my Marlin 45-70 Guide two years ago, and don't know if it's a "new" version, but whatever it is, it handles the Beartooth 525 grain bullet just fine.....and the bullet is loaded to the crimp cannelure.
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2010, 02:58 PM
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Model 1895 recoil

[QUOTE=TheDownRanger;527824][SIZE="3"]

Problem is the overall cartridge length limitations of the "new" Marlin. (the origi8nal 1895s had, apparently, longer receivers). It generally won't accept anything over a 350 - 400 gr bullet. Even the hot CorBon 45-70 loads have a very squat bullet shape to allow them to just barely fit in there. I once tried 500gr jacketed rounds, but had to remove the lever to get them in, ditto to unload an unfired round. BTW, when I touched off that round, the recoil dislocated the for-end stock piece! Vicious!
********************************************
Howdy Down Ranger,
I've noticed that the Hornady rounds have a shorter overall case length, so I figure that the 500 grain cast bullets will work fine using those cases in it, IF I keep the load level down to a resonable level. I'm already looking for that gunsmith that I mentioned before. I still need to order that new butt pad from Brownells, but since I am fighting a case of Lime (SIC)?disease I have plenty of time on my hands. I guess Hornady beat you to the idea of shortening case lengths, sorry. But that is in the .45-70 so maybe you still have the rights to that new idea?
*********************************
DR:Frankly, I have no desire to kill any more bears, but at least I learned, first-hand, what does work....
***************************************
LRH: I'm only planning on shooting at black bears since I can't afford to travel to AK. If I ever manage to save the flight fare I do have a place to stay with an old LEO buddy so who knows? Since you sound like you have busted some pretty big bears, I'll use that load you recommended if I get that chance. Since I am getting on in years and my current health sucks, I'll add that to my "Bucket" list. Thanks!

longrangehunter
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  #19  
Old 10-25-2010, 08:53 PM
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Any way you look at it, a .45-70 Gov't is the "bad boy" of the large caliber rifles. Sure, there are some calibers and rifles that will kick more, but will they kill any deader? I've included a couple of pictures for your consideration. One, is of my butt stock with a quality recoil pad on it. The second is a 100 yd picture of a nice group of home-cast bullets (that is, until I was stung by a bee, and that shot went high). Point is, that I don't believe in abusing my equipment (my beautiful MARLIN M-1895). As the 100 yd picture attests, I believe that it kills with considerable authority, anything that a sane man would want to tackle on the North American Continent. That being said, my chronograph measured this load at 1587 fps, without tearing my head off. What more do you want?
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  #20  
Old 10-28-2010, 07:31 AM
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Howdy Stalker,

When you have four fused vertibra in your neck, ( C2 thru C5) and an appendgement between C5 and C6, you do whatever you have to do to make your hobby less painful. Since I have been shooting .45-70's since the early 70's I did not want to quit shooting my favorite round. Anytime I can get data from another shooter that may improve that quality of fun, I take it. I knew years ago that the old workhorse could kill anything that I might ever have a chance to hunt. Comparing the killing power of the .45-70 to more famous rounds or the huge British rounds used in their famous double rifles, I came to the conclusion that with the right load and right bullet that it could take game anywhere in the world. Shot placement has more to do with killing than power anyway. Ask any sniper.
In reply to your last question. Nothing. But the day I stop experimenting and learning new ideas, is the day they can plant me. BTW, I think my Marlin 1895 is beautiful too. For a factory built firearm it's a knockout. But my single shot .45-70 has more burl and highlights in it's mountain grown black walnut stock than any Marlin ever made. With it's Falling Block Works action and it's 27 1/2 inch octagon barrel it's also extremely accurate. But it's just a tad to heavy for me to carry in the woods any longer. That is why I bought the Marlin. BTW, no scope on my Marlin either, just irons with a rear peep. With irons and my old eyes she groups around 1 1 /2 inch at 100. Can't ask much more than that. So what powder, brass and what bullet, did you use to get that 1587 f.p.s.?

Best Regards,
longrangehunter






Quote:
Originally Posted by stalker76z View Post
Any way you look at it, a .45-70 Gov't is the "bad boy" of the large caliber rifles. Sure, there are some calibers and rifles that will kick more, but will they kill any deader? I've included a couple of pictures for your consideration. One, is of my butt stock with a quality recoil pad on it. The second is a 100 yd picture of a nice group of home-cast bullets (that is, until I was stung by a bee, and that shot went high). Point is, that I don't believe in abusing my equipment (my beautiful MARLIN M-1895). As the 100 yd picture attests, I believe that it kills with considerable authority, anything that a sane man would want to tackle on the North American Continent. That being said, my chronograph measured this load at 1587 fps, without tearing my head off. What more do you want?
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