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  #1  
Old 01-12-2011, 11:07 AM
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25/35 barrel Twist???


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I am having a marlin 30/30 converted to a 25/35. The smith is recommending a barrel longer than the 20", maybe 23? My question relates to twist. What twist you you recommend ordering? I would like to shoot Ranch Dog's 80 grain cast bullet at high velocity.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:33 PM
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Location: Northern Wisconsin
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The factory was 1 in 8 for the 115 gr fn. A 1 in 10 will be good to up to 100gr bullets. With the 80 gr you could go with a 1 in 12 twist ,but anything heavier wouldn't stablilize very well.
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:43 PM
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I have a 20” barrel 25-35 Winchester Model 94 and a 24” TC Contender barrel in 25-35AI. The TC barrel started out as a standard 25-35.
Greg Mushial at GMDR (a Beartooth forum member) had a slow twist 25-35 barrel and we compared load data for quite awhile. Greg’s slow twist barrel displayed far better accuracy with 100-grain and lighter bullets than my fast twist barrels. Greg shot a lot of cast bullet data but when he gave his rife to his gunsmith to ream to 25-35AI the barrel was ruined. Broke my heart as we had hoped to have quite a bit of apples to apples comparisons. Greg has a new barrel but has not had time to set up to complete the test.
Townsend Whelen and Paul Estey explored the slow twist 25-35 rather thoroughly in the 1920’s and ‘30’s. Whelen and Estey along with many others wrote quite a bit about the slow twist 25-35 during this period. Most of this writing was in the American Rifleman but there were other articles and books which covered the subject. For the varminter and deer hunter the slow twist barrel is a good choice. The 100-grain bullet is just about ideal for our West Texas white tail deer. Your modern rifle is not restricted to low pressure load data as are the older rifles and the TC barrels (the TC pressure restriction in due to a lack of primary extraction).
Someday I will build up a 25-35 Tomcat. I believe this is the way to go as it is a mild improvement. I also believe the slow twist barrel is the way I would go.

Here are a few links to previous 25-35 threads here on the Beartooth bullets forum.

http://www.gmdr.com/

Dr. A’s thread

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....ghlight=.25-35

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....ghlight=.25-35

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....ghlight=.25-35

25-35AI

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....ghlight=.25-35

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....ghlight=.25-35

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....=.25-35+tomcat

25-35 Tomcat

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....ghlight=.25-35


[EDIT]
I intended to mention Greg found he was able to load to higher pressure with the slow twist barrel than I was with my fast twist barrels.
I hope to go with a 24” barrel.
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Last edited by William Iorg; 01-12-2011 at 02:49 PM.
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2011, 03:34 PM
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Thanks for the informative replies.

So, you guys suggesting that I go with a 24" barrel with a slow twist? Think it will look OK with a standard length mag tube and a round barrel? Or do I need to look at installing a full length tube as well? He starts with a 22 caliber barrel blank and I'm pretty sure he can make it any length I want. Nonneman Custom Rifles is who I've been talking to. According to my local gunsmith, $475 for the conversion is pretty decent. My smith would have to buy the reamers and that would put the project out of the price I've been quoted.

I've got larger bullet lever guns already...30/30, 44 mag, 454 Casull, 45/70, so I am thinking this will be a light bullet gun to fill in between the ones listed and my 22LR. Someday I will get a 22 Mag as well in Marlin. So I'm thinking 8o-100 grains max with priority given to the 80 grain side for accuracy. I could have a 219 zipper made for the same cost, but I am thinking that in my part of the country that the 25/35 will kill more than paper.

This being converted from a 30/30 Texan with straight stock. I'm a straight stock guy. Just cannot warm up to lever guns with a pistol grip.
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Last edited by joecool911; 01-12-2011 at 03:44 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:09 PM
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It is important to remember that just because I want a 24” barrel it may not be best for you.
It is always an agonizing decision on how to set up a rifle.

My 20” barrel Model 94AE shoots the 100-grain JHP Speer bullet very well at velocities exceeding 2,600 fps. These loads exceed published load data for the 25-35 but the Winchester and the brass have no trouble with it. I have good brass life _ I have never lost a case whether 25-35 or re-formed 375 Winchester.

Your best hunting loads will probably be in the 2,560 fps range. Powders which will do the dead without difficulty and with excellent accuracy include Alliant Reloder 10x, Hodgdon 4895, IMR 4320, Hodgdon Varget and Alliant Reloder 15. You will have no problem with powder selection but jacketed bullets will be a problem. The modern 25-35 needs a 100-grain bullet and none is available.
I use the 100-grain JHP Speer bullet and feed it through the magazine with no trouble but I am certain Speer would not recommend the practice.

[Edit] Will you use a rifle forend with cap?
I agree the short magazine tube is the way to go. I would select a or magazine tube.
I agree the slow twist barrel is a good selection. The 100-grain bullets kill deer well for me. The slow twist works well with lighter cast bullets and it appears more versatile than the fast twist barrel.
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Last edited by William Iorg; 01-12-2011 at 04:15 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2012, 06:34 PM
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revisit of 25-35 barrel twist

I had a Sears 54 (Winchester 94) relined from 30-30 to 25-35. The liner was for a 25-20 so it was listed as 1-14" but it measures more like 1-15". 90 grain is the heaviest I can get to stabilize, I do not have heavier molds but have tried jacketed. Determined to hunt with it, I tried several jacketed and found the Rem 86 grain FN and the Sierra (i think) 87 gr. SP penetrated dry phone books well enough to feel comfortable with southern deer. Finally had a nice buck come in, had to shoot him 3 times at 40 yards, no pass thrus. 1st one glanced shoulder blade and hit rib, second hit rib on entry and on other side but did not exit, third was in spine and dropped him but still no complete penetration. Lucky shot. Autopsy revealed all would have been fatal but with little or no blood trail had he ran off after 1st or 2nd shot. Would really like to shoot the 117 gr factory load but can not find anyone with a liner with faster twist. I need to re-visit the Greenhill formula but best I remember 1-10 to 1-12" should be about right for 117 grainers. Not complaining as this was my best buck ever but I'm lucky he did not run after first shot. BTW, the SP and the FN hit very close at 100 yards so since the SP penetrated a little better in dry phone books I loaded one of those (1st shot) followed by FN in the tube magazine (2nd and 3rd shot). Just adding some experience to this discussion and hoping someone has an idea for a faster twist liner. Hate to pay again but love the rifle and am now afraid to hunt with it. I hate to admit it but I am now in the same price range as a factory 25-35 but we live and learn. God Bless!
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2012, 06:27 AM
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You have a very interesting rifle. The 1-14” twist is ideal for the varmint bullets and for cast bullets.
The Hornady .25 caliber 117-grain round nose bullet is .970” overall and requires at least a 10” twist at typical 25-35 velocities.
With a tang or receiver sight you have an ideal varmint type rifle. Dave Scovill from Wolfe publishing uses a 25-35 for called coyotes and he gives them a chance by standing up to shoot.
You slow twist rifle should be ideal for cast bullets. Greg Mushial had the same twist on his 25-35 Marlin and he typically shot groups 50% smaller than my 1-8” twist barrel with the light bullets.
I use the 100-grain Speer JHP as my primary bullet in the 25-35. I load the cartridge above book pressures as I am using a modern rifle. The Speer bullet puts deer on the ground quickly. I drive this bullet to 2,550 fps and this is low 250 Savage performance. I hunt in brush and at these close ranges I have complete confidence in the 25-35 to drop deer and small pigs quickly.
In my experience the 117-grain bullet expands quickly and will exit our smaller deer from most angles. I have not found the 117-grain bullet to “act quicker” with regard to putting deer on the ground. Typically when I hit a deer with the 25-35 and broadside shots it will hump up and take a few steps. With quartering shoulder shots they will often whirl and trot a short distance with their tail up and fanned. The good thing about the 25-35 is the muzzle blast is low and the deer do not seem be alarmed at the shot. The 117-grain bullet does not seem to impart the same initial shock as the 100-grain JHP.
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  #8  
Old 02-03-2012, 06:55 PM
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Oh yes, the project that keeps getting put on the back burner. Have a Glenfield 30-30 with 2/3 mag , sent it to the gunsmith to rebarrel to 25-35. Gunsmith backed out stating that it was to much hassle. I decided 22 in barrel and a 1 in 10 twist would be the most versitil. But I think I would have a slightly improved 25-35 by having it reamed with the 25 rem reamer. This would give the same case angle as the 30-30 .

I still need to trim the rim off a 25-35 cartridge and fire it in my Model 14 Rem in 25 Rem and see if the shoulder will push forward without splitting. That way I can have correct head stamped brass. But I think the only way that this will happen is if I pick up a angle eject Win 94 . Much easier to barrel than a Marlin. But haven't found one at a reasonable price.
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2012, 04:18 AM
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I would take the money I would spend on the “new” Winchester and send the Marlin to Mr. Nonneman.

Nonneman Custom Rifles - Fine quality firearms for the discriminating shooter

Nonneman barreled several Marlins for for members of this forum and his work with Erics .30 Lever Maximum has been superior.
I would ream the barrel for the standard 25-35 to start with. In my 20” barrel Winchester with 1-8” twist I push the 100-grain Speer JHP bullet just over 2,600 fps using Hodgdon Varget or 4895 and Alliant Reloder 10X or 15. This is nudging up into 250 Savage territory.
Later if you want more the .25 Bulleberry or Francis Sell’s 25-35 Tomcat will mildly improve the chamber without difficulty.
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