The web's most comprehensive user-interactive handloading database! Find the loading data created by handloaders, for handloaders, post your pet loads, or access and develop your own online loading database with our LoadNotes personal handloading database software. This feature, unique in its concept and intuitive in it's data presentation is fast to access, superbly organized and comprehensive in scope.Our online forums for questions and answers on many shooting and outdoor related topics. A dynamic, active, and well-informed resource for your enjoyment and interaction. Our most used resource on this website! Come share the experience with us!
» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Leverguns > Leverguns and Their Cartridges (General)
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:13 PM
Bolt2bounce's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 129
444 marling 265 Gr LeveRevolution too Long


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


I ran into a problem loading the 265 gr LeveRevolution bullets, in my Marlin 444.. they are too long to feed or eject a live round in my Marlin 444, any one else had this problem? now I have 100 bullets, that I'll have to shoot single shot.. not the end of the world, but a bummer to me.. B2B
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-22-2011, 02:03 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nortwuds Wisconsin
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt2bounce View Post
I ran into a problem loading the 265 gr LeveRevolution bullets, in my Marlin 444.. they are too long to feed or eject a live round in my Marlin 444, any one else had this problem? now I have 100 bullets, that I'll have to shoot single shot.. not the end of the world, but a bummer to me.. B2B
You can either seat them shorter and crimp with a Lee Crimp die, or get some Hornady brass. They are cut shorter to work with the gummy tip bullets and crimp in the cannelure
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-22-2011, 04:41 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central Penna.
Posts: 928
Could you trim some of your brass instead of buying Hornady brass???
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-22-2011, 05:04 PM
Bolt2bounce's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 129
i guess I could do either, just never thought I'd run into that problem.. I'd rather not have to do that, I'll be sticking to the flat point bullets from now on in the 444.. B2B
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-22-2011, 06:38 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,246
If you handloaded them into R-P brass, yea, the overall length is too long. Hornady's 444 brass is a full 5/32" shorter than R-P brass, just for this very reason. Buy a bullet puller or just shoot em all and stick to shorter bullets in the R-P cases. Just for information, Hornady's 300 Gr XTP's will feed when loaded into R-P cases and crimped in the forward cannelure. I use all my Hornady cases to load my cast 290 gr FNGC bullets, which have longer noses like the 265's you loaded. New Hornady brass is too expensive to buy, I've gotten all mine from the local range for free.

Last edited by baddad457; 01-22-2011 at 06:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-22-2011, 08:47 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 135
Hornady's reloading data for there FTX bullets in the 444 says that you need to trim the cases .010 shorter then SAMMI specs.
Terry
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-23-2011, 12:07 PM
Bolt2bounce's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 129
Yes I'm loading RP 444 brass, it aint cheap either.. I'll end up shooting them single shot, as I'm not going to pull them, too much work for me.. The other option is to trim off the nose of the gummy tips'..I may try that on a few..also.. If I load any more, I'll trim the cases back so they will feed but I'm not thrilled about that concept either.. I got a few rounds stuck in the gun test cycling them through and I had to take the gun apart to get it out.. while it was apart.. I saw a lot of bad machining marks and burrs so I polished up and removed a lot of burrs and sharp edges on the inside of the gun.. I beveled and polished the feed way and magazine tube mouth also..I think that will make it a better..functioning system down the road.. there was a lot of rough spots in the gun.. My go to bullet will likely be the XTP 300 gr but I like the concept of the Leverevolution..bullet.. B2B
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-23-2011, 02:39 PM
Tnhunter's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt2bounce View Post
Yes I'm loading RP 444 brass, it aint cheap either.. I'll end up shooting them single shot, as I'm not going to pull them, too much work for me.. The other option is to trim off the nose of the gummy tips'..I may try that on a few..also.. If I load any more, I'll trim the cases back so they will feed but I'm not thrilled about that concept either.. I got a few rounds stuck in the gun test cycling them through and I had to take the gun apart to get it out.. while it was apart.. I saw a lot of bad machining marks and burrs so I polished up and removed a lot of burrs and sharp edges on the inside of the gun.. I beveled and polished the feed way and magazine tube mouth also..I think that will make it a better..functioning system down the road.. there was a lot of rough spots in the gun.. My go to bullet will likely be the XTP 300 gr but I like the concept of the Leverevolution..bullet.. B2B
The gummy tips will simply pull off with a pair of needle-nose pliers too. That would make zero difference on any shots out to 150 yards or so, performance-wise.

There is an excellent bullet penetration test for the .444 over on the Marlin Owners forum. Take a look, it has some surprising results. The XTP was not one of the better bullets, BTW. If you cannot find it, simply PM me and I'll send you the link.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-23-2011, 03:21 PM
Bolt2bounce's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 129
Yeah I solved my problem with a belt sander and it still leaves a little bit of rubber to absorb recoil forces in the tube.. I know the XTP was really designed for a handgun bullet so I'd not expect it to hold up as well as a bullet designed for a rifle, I'll cast some bullets if I want penetration.. I've also read the leverevolution bullet is not a great bullet as far as toughness either.. B2B



Last edited by Bolt2bounce; 01-23-2011 at 03:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:44 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,246
The 300 XTP's don't expand as big as the lighter XTP's do. They're meant to expand slightly AND penetrate, and I doubt the ballistic coefficient is that much different from the 265 tipped bullets. Trimming a lot of brass is something I've done in the past, but I'd rather avoid doing now. And I have a powered case trimming lathe. I went to Hornady's site, the 265 FTX bullet's coefficient is .225, the 300 XTP is .245. So the XTP has a slight edge on the FTX BEFORE you remove the FTX's nose.

Last edited by baddad457; 01-23-2011 at 05:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-24-2011, 09:52 AM
Tnhunter's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddad457 View Post
The 300 XTP's don't expand as big as the lighter XTP's do. They're meant to expand slightly AND penetrate, and I doubt the ballistic coefficient is that much different from the 265 tipped bullets. Trimming a lot of brass is something I've done in the past, but I'd rather avoid doing now. And I have a powered case trimming lathe. I went to Hornady's site, the 265 FTX bullet's coefficient is .225, the 300 XTP is .245. So the XTP has a slight edge on the FTX BEFORE you remove the FTX's nose.
The penetration test I referred to had 10 bullets for the .444 tested with the medium being water jugs filled with water. Two of the tested bullets were cast bullets, the other 8 were jacketed bullets. In this test the 300gr XTP finished dead last and had complete seperation of jacket and core.

A short quote from the test:
The reason why the Hornady 300 gr XTP finished last because 1) core/jacket separation 2) lowest retained weight 3) neither penetration nor energy transfer all that impressive

The 265 FTX finished with better penetration, more expansion and it did not separate. As a wild card entry a 180gr "X" bullet out of a 30/06 was also tested with the same medium. Several of the .444 bullets outperformed the 180gr "X", but not the XTP. It was a very well done and interesting test.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-24-2011, 03:05 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,246
How do you compare penetration testing in water jugs ? That's hardly a medium to use to estimate penetration in live tissue. Great fun, but hardly a valid test medium.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:46 PM
Tnhunter's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddad457 View Post
How do you compare penetration testing in water jugs ? That's hardly a medium to use to estimate penetration in live tissue. Great fun, but hardly a valid test medium.
Well, I look at it like this: if you compare loads with the same medium, it certainly tells you what each load does in comparison with another. Is that not the point?? I'd not argue that there might be some other "medium" that better represents an animals body, but THAT medium would more than likely show the same trends, at least in my opinion.

Is there something you think might be a better test of penetration that's easily available to the common person? I've seen wet newsprint used, but why would that be better than simple water/jugs?

Oh, and if you'd like to see just what happened in the test this person spent a LOT of time doing, here ya go!

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/i...c,81274.0.html

Last edited by Tnhunter; 01-24-2011 at 04:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-24-2011, 05:23 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,246
You ever shot water jugs ? A gallon milk jug pretty much explodes when shot with anything. You ever see an animal do that ? You want to go by water jug comparisions ? Go right ahead. I can think of any number of other mediums that are easily available to anyone with little effort.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-24-2011, 06:50 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 135
I seen some tests on TV where they used water jugs, I think water is very hard to penitrate, and I think the test would be valid, for comparison, one bullet goes through lets say 4 jugs full of water, the next bullet goes through lets say 6 jugs, which one penitrated best? Seams simple to me.
Terry
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-24-2011, 09:00 PM
Bolt2bounce's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 129
Water is not the best test for penetration but it's cheap and easy. I'm not really worried about BC or penetration..too much with the leveRevolution ammo/bullet... The rounds I've loaded will likely only kill rocks dirt and paper.... I don't get to hunt that much so, I'll likely not get to test any out on meat... My biggest concern was the lack of feeding through the rifle, I've solved that problem and now I can move..on to accuracy tests.. I think if i was going to hunt I'd use a Partition or a hard cast lead slug... B2B

Last edited by Bolt2bounce; 01-25-2011 at 02:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Marlin 1892 in .32 Long Colt or .32 Rimfire Gatofeo Leverguns and Their Cartridges (General) 39 02-12-2014 01:32 AM
Long Action caliber choices Rubberduck Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 11 09-20-2009 07:19 AM
444 Marlin LDR Leverguns and Their Cartridges (General) 19 01-27-2009 07:00 PM
.45-70 vs .444 for only BB Lever Gun Bird Dog Big-Bore Lever Guns 120 11-07-2006 06:20 PM
The 45-70 at longer ranges oldfordjr Leverguns and Their Cartridges (General) 10 08-17-2005 11:02 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:25 AM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2