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Rechambering Marlin 1895 to .45-90?

17K views 27 replies 15 participants last post by  Carroll (Buck) 
#1 ·
So...In reading posts,

The 457 WWG is essentially a 45-90 case with a slightly smaller bullet, right? And from what I understand, .458's cannot be loaded in a chambered 457 WWG?

I have lots of .458 bullets from loading 45-70's, so can I have the 1895 rechambered to 45-90, and use the .458 bullets? What else needs to be changed in a Marlin 1895?

I like the better ballistics, similar to the 450 Marlin, but with lower pressures. Added convienance of shooting .410's too, from what I have heard?

Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
Forgot to mention..

Also, I was previously looking at the 450 AK, but the dies are ~$300 from RCBS, and the cases have to be formed from 358 win brass. Wouldn;t the 45-90 just be an easier way to get the same ballistics? Lower reloading costs? cheaper supplies?

Big question, where do I get the brass?:confused:
 
#3 ·
You can get a 45-90 I believe, but, it takes a lot of rework of the Marlin action...its an expensive proposition I am sure. Contact David Clay at DRC....he will do it for you..
 
#5 ·
baddad457; I have explored the Marlin lever action with my Safari Grade 444 modification. The COL is 2.750 (2.580 or so is the OEM COL). The Safari Grade 444 is built on a 2.770 standard, and I know I can go 2.900+............but, really see no need to do that with the power that the SG 444 produces. Also, to go that length the receiver needs to be modified, and, this is just my personal opinion, those modifications "may" weaken the strength of the receiver in the area of the bolt block.....my modification makes no changes to the receiver. I would not know that for sure until I tried the 2.900 COL modification. I do know That DRC has built a few 45-90 Marlin lever guns. I do not know if they are BP only, or if they can shoot smokeless....the OP if he is serious about that modification, and, if he is willing to shell out what I am sure will be a good investment needs to check with DRC. The SG 444 produces well over 4000 ft lbs of energy as would the 45-90 with top end loads in a Marlin, so, the only real difference in either would be bullet diameter.....at those velocities and energy levels a few thousandths of an inch bullet diameter is not going to make much of a difference.....
 
#7 ·
Or any of the SS shot 45-70s, like the Ruger #1?? :confused:
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the help. I bought a Win.xl 1886 in .45-70 and plan on having to reamed to .45-90.
__
My question now would be; if I'm having it reamed, does the gunsmith ream to a specific bullet type like the 405gr WNFP or a longer bullet like the 500gr more spire pointed? Or does it matter? At times I think I over think stuff.

Also, anyone know where I can get a loop lever for the modern 1886?
 
#13 ·
With the rifling lead of my Browning 45/70, it's fine shooting the 500+gr BPS sillouette bullets, another choice is RCBS's 500 gr FNGC. With the BS bullets with their longer noses, you may run into feeding problems after chambering to a 45/90. As for the Marlin guys trying to convince you the 45/90 isn't needed, I tell em to go fly a kite. Why does ANYONE rechamber ANY rifle ? Cause they WANT TO. I say go for it. You can possibly improve on the 45/70 heavy loads with the 90's extra case capacity, as this would tend to lower chamber pressures with similar loads that would be maximum in a 45/70 case. Your shoulder may not like the results, but it's a worthwhile proposition to one so inclined to try it. I've loaded the RCBS 520 gr to 1700 fps, this is with a lightly compressed load of AA2015 in a Winchester case. It by no means was maximum.
 
#9 ·
With today's modern powders and bullets, you can take the .45-70 up to match or exceed any .45-90 load.
As originally loaded, the .45-90 had a 300 gr. lead bullet over 90 grains of black powder. The rifling pitch was slower than the .45-70 rifling. For this reason, when folks get hold of an old .45-90 and reload it with 400 gr. bullets, they are generally disappointed in its accuracy. The old rifling often won't stabilize bullets beyond 350 grains.
I'm not sure what the rifling pitch is on the newer .45-90s of today; probably identical to the .45-70.
There's no need to have a .45-90 today, unless you're shooting black powder and need the extra case volume for more powder.
Just load the .45-70 to a level slightly below maximum, if you need extra power. It's what I've been doing since I bought my Marlin 1895 new in 1977.
 
#10 ·
GAt +1

thoughts: the 450 Alaskan is not on a 358 case....it is on a 348 win case.

The 45-90 makes no sense unless you are shooting black powder. The Marlin will take reloads that almost match the 458 win mag, and equal the losser 450 Marlin. What would want anything larger than a 45-70+P for???


If I was going to spend all the $$$ for a conversion of a Marlin, it would be for the 50 Alaskan, also on the the 348 win case. It is bad ***, if you can take the pounding.
Go to Wild West gun in anchorage if you want to see what can be done with a 336 action. they are very good and nice people.
 
#11 ·
The Marlin is particular about case length to cycle properly. It's unlikely it can be modified to handle a case .4 inches longer. Also, there will be little in the way of performance increase as there's already a ton of room in the 45-70 case.
 
#12 ·
#14 ·
baddad457 makes a good point....why would you want to push the 45-70 to its maximum limit, when you could have a 45-90 that is just "cruising" at 45-70 performance levels? If you "want" or "need" more get up and go than the 45-70 can offer, the 45-90 would suit the bill. You could always run "reduced" loads at 45-70 levels, and then when you really need some punch the 45-90 could be loaded to the max. If it were me, I would use the 450 Marlin for the modification. Its design (different barrel threads for greater strength) is improved over the 1895 Marlin that is chambered in 45-70. The only real question here: "is the cost of the modification worth the gains in performance?" Only the OP can answer that question.
 
#16 · (Edited)
You don't need a longer chamber throat for longer bullets. The same throat that accomodates FN bullets is fine with longer BPS style bullets. The diameter of the bullet forward of the driving bands is smaller on all the longer styles I've tried, this includes Lyman's BPS and the 500 gr RN, and the RCBS BPS bullet. As I mentioned before, the OAL may be too long to feed with these bullets, even in the 86 seated in a 45/90 case. He may be limited to the FN bullets for feeding from the magazine. As for using the 450 Marlin, I see no reason to even consider it, the case capacity is severely limited, it's even less than a 45/70. And Marlin screwed the pooch by using the wider belt, forcing you to use the factory brass.
 
#17 ·
The intended purpose was to get 450AK performance. Harold Johnson in AK, who developed that round used a .348 blown ou in a Win '71, because the .45-90 case was d/c'd by the manuf in 1952. I plan on playing around with I-3031, getting upto ~67gr to duplicate (if possible) the 450AK velocities. Case capacity of ~90gr water over the ~79gr for a .45-70. The .45-348 is roughly the same CC.
Yes, it will thump. Yes, I can also reduce loads. This is an 'Brush gun' that could still reach out and touch, with peep sights. Planning on using the Lyman or Williams side receiver mounted peep. Is one easier than the other to adjust on the fly?

Thanks for the comments.
 
#18 ·
A tang mounted sight is easy to adjust, by hand. The Williams needs a screw driver. Don't know that you'd need to adjust either anyway in the field, especially in the brush. I have the Williams on my 86, and love it. I've got tang sights on a 92 and 94, I prefer the Williams though. But with the tang mount, you can sight the gun for say 200 yards and use the open sights up close, so all you'd need to do to change is flip(up or down) the tang sight
 
#19 ·
"Why would you want to push the 45-70 to its maximum limit, when you could have a 45-90 that is just "cruising" at 45-70 performance levels? If you "want" or "need" more get up and go than the 45-70 can offer, the 45-90 would suit the bill. You could always run "reduced" loads at 45-70 levels, and then when you really need some punch the 45-90 could be loaded to the max ... "

I disagree.
Yes, the .45-90 case has slightly greater volume than the .45-70, but that doesn't mean that you can safely produce a higher velocity.
The limiting factor is the Marlin's action and the case itself.
With a few, specific powders you can load the Marlin 1895 action to a maximum that produces about 2,000 fps with a 400 gr. bullet. I seriously doubt that you could do the same with the .45-90 case, in a Marlin 95, without endangering the integrity of the action and your well being.
The only reason anyone would want a .45-90 over a .45-70, and still use smokeless powder, is for bragging rights and case-length envy. Black powder cartridge competitors use the .45-90 in their single-shot rifles because it holds a bit more powder for the long range shots they take, and it's justified if you're using black powder.
But modern smokeless powder loads in the .45-70 will do anything the .45-90 will do with smokeless powder. As case volume increases in these big bore cartridges, proper ignition of smokeless powder can also become a problem.
Years ago, in a C. Sharps Arms catalog, I was surprised to read that they did not recommend using smokeless powder in the .45-120 case, because of erratic ignition that sometimes exhibited dangerous tendencies.
Why bother with the .45-90 if you're only shooting smokeless powder? Cases are much harder to obtain, and it offers no advantage over the sanely loaded .45-70.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Pretty sure the .457 WWG is .458 diameter also. Don't get fooled by the name. The .460 Wby is also .458.
You need to shorter the ejector and lengthen the cartridge elevator, and those are only two of the mods I know need to be done off the top of my head. It is not as easy as one might think and why WWG gets what they do for the conversion.

What I have been whining about for years is a Marlin factory produced .50 Alaskan. That is a relatively easy conversion IF Marlin would just do it.
 
#22 · (Edited)
A properly loaded .45-70 will take anything on the North American continent. A 420 grain bullet at 1,800 fps is not to be taken lightly.
And I still see no use for the .45-90 unless you're shooting black powder. In fact, with smokeless powder, because the .45-90s greater volume you may have to use fillers to ensure the best ignition. The .45-70 doesn't have this problem, except with small charges of pistol powder in gallery loads.

The .450 Alaskan is an expensive rifle to have made, and expensive to shoot. Why bother, when the .45-70 will do just as much, is a readily available rifle, and ammo is over the counter or easily assembled?

When you realize the cost of .450 Alaskan or .45-90 custom cases, and altering a Marlin or Winchester, you'll see that you could have had a nice .45-70 with accessories and more than a few boxes of factory ammo for less -- without affecting capability.
And in the game field, the difference won't be apparent over a .45-70 hurling a 400 to 420 gr. bullet at 1,800 fps. Dead is dead.

But hey, get what you want. It's your money.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I have both a 45-70 and a 45-90. The brass for the 45-90 is available but more expensive. I think I ordered a couple hundred cases when I ordered them:rolleyes: Should last a while.

My 1886 is a 45-70 and I have been tempted to ream it out to 45-90. While I understand that there are a lot of loads out there for the 45-70 that will punish the shooter about all that can be withstood, I have not pushed that rifle that far.

I think that Flat top has a good point. I gotta believe that the 45-90 will produce same velocity at lower pressures.

Regarding the Marlin. I've owned several Marlin Lever Guns including 44 Mag and 444. They shot well with jacketed bullets. (I traded off the 44 mag because of the limited length of the action and I wanted to shoot cast bullets that when loaded exceed the allowable length of the action. I traded off the 444 Marlin also because I could not get cast bullets to shoot well enough for my taste.) The Marlins that I have had have advantages and disadvantages. But for me the length of the actions are important and so I shoot Winchesters.

Reaming out a 45-70 to 45-90 will not have any of the issues that the old 45-90 express had with the slow twist.

In the end, if I had a Winchester and I was unsatisfied with the performance, I'd consider reaming it out. If I had a Marlin - no way. But I'd try the 45-70 in that Winchester as is before the ream job.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Miroku Winchester 1886 .45-90 is

the simple solution.



This rifle, loads, and hunting results (ele, leopard, buffalos, etc>) has been documented at length on Leverguns.com.

Here is a recent post on Accurate Reloading.com :
My Miroku made Winchester 1886 .45-90 repro has a 26" barrel and is a very well made rifle.
This is true of all the Miroku rifles made rifles and shotguns that I own.

I have not heard anything bad said about the Miroku made Brownings or Winchesters are made or how the shoot.

WRT METE comment - I bought my .45-90 to do some things a little better than the .45-70. Specifically to get more velocity from jacketed bullets from 300 - 450 grains for hunting purposes. Some of this was accomplished through handloading and some from a high performance ammo manufacturer. On the low end, we have taken 300 grain bullets to 2600 and could have done a bit more. When we reached .450 NE performance with 450 grain bullets at 2150 fps, we stopped, thinking that would suffice for most anything walking about; so far that has been true.
An added benefit is that is also shoots factory .45-70 ammo for plinking, practice, and game the size of deer, elk, black bear, hogs, etc.


NRA Patron, TSRA, Whittington Center, DWWC,
Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
 
#25 ·
the simple solution.



This rifle, loads, and hunting results (ele, leopard, buffalos, etc>) has been documented at length on Leverguns.com.

Here is a recent post on Accurate Reloading.com :
My Miroku made Winchester 1886 .45-90 repro has a 26" barrel and is a very well made rifle.
This is true of all the Miroku rifles made rifles and shotguns that I own.

I have not heard anything bad said about the Miroku made Brownings or Winchesters are made or how the shoot.

WRT METE comment - I bought my .45-90 to do some things a little better than the .45-70. Specifically to get more velocity from jacketed bullets from 300 - 450 grains for hunting purposes. Some of this was accomplished through handloading and some from a high performance ammo manufacturer. On the low end, we have taken 300 grain bullets to 2600 and could have done a bit more. When we reached .450 NE performance with 450 grain bullets at 2150 fps, we stopped, thinking that would suffice for most anything walking about; so far that has been true.
An added benefit is that is also shoots factory .45-70 ammo for plinking, practice, and game the size of deer, elk, black bear, hogs, etc.


NRA Patron, TSRA, Whittington Center, DWWC,
Android Reloading Ballistics App at xPlat Inc | Reloading Ballistics - Reloading Recipe Manager
Yeah, I agree everything CRS said. It has been surprising how many people I have come across incapable of understanding how the additional case capacity allows you to improve performance. Some of these are the same people asking how to modify their marlim to accept 2.67" COL loads. I've given up on trying to explain it, and instead recommend that people go and get an internal ballistics program like quickload if they want to understand. CRS, you are pushing the loads further than I am. The Winchester must have a stronger action than the 336 based 1895 Marlin. I've been pushing 300s at 2,480 fps all while staying below standard 450 Marlin pressures. Folks, don't try that with your standard .45-70 lever! In general it will carry the same energy 100 yards further down range than a 45-70.
 
#26 · (Edited)
45/90 why not

It seems like a next step kind of thing. When I decided to step up I went with a stronger action and a greater case capacity than 45/70 or 444 Marlin have with Savage M99 in 416/284 McPherson. 350grs at over 2400fps and 400grs at over 2200fps and Savage M99 action able to withstand 65,000 psi. Nothing wrong with doing what makes you happy. Good luck.
 
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