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  #1  
Old 12-26-2003, 05:53 PM
John Kort's Avatar
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The .30-30 ...... A Historic Overview

Today, the legendary cartridge that carries the .30-30 headstamp, first began life as the .30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS. In 1891, the Winchester Repeating Arms Company first began experimenting with smokeless powder in an effort to develop a higher velocity cartridge that would bear the Winchester name. They decided on .30 caliber after working with the military on the development of the .30 U.S.Army (.30-40) cartridge.

At first, they necked down the .45-70 casing to .30 caliber and began the development process. An 1886 rifle was chambered and testing began. Not completely satisfied with their results using the larger case, they decided to work with the smaller .38-50 Ballard cartridge case of 1876 necked down to .30 caliber.

Ultimately, after a period of testing with the various nitro powders of that period, Winchester's ballasticians were ready to introduce their new baby in their new 1894 Winchester rifle.

The resultant .30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS cartridge which carried the .30 W.C.F. (Winchester Center Fire) designation on the head stamp, first appeared in Winchester's catalog No. 55, dated August, 1895. Several months prior to this, the first ads announcing the arrival of this cartridge began appearing in the sporting press.

It's ballistics were pretty spectacular for a sporting rifle cartridge at that time. Pushing a 160 gr. .30 Caliber "metal patched" bullet to 1,970 f.p.s., it produced 50% more velocity than most of the sporting rifle cartridges in 1895.

Three months after WINCHESTER’s first advertisement of their new .30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS cartridge, their biggest competitor, the Marlin Firearms Company, announced their version of this cartridge chambered in their model 1893 rifle. Since Marlin did not manufacture ammunition, it worked closely with the Union Metallic Cartridge Company (U.M.C.) located in Bridgeport, Connecticut.

U.M.C. replicated the .30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS cartridge but gave it a different name. Since 30 grains of smokeless powder was initially used in this cartridge, they named it the .30-30. Cartridges were head stamped U.M.C. / .30-30 S. The S was dropped from the headstamp within a few years.


The name .30-30 followed the prevailing practice of that period where the first number designated the caliber in inches and the second number the powder charge in grains, however, in this case, the second number denoted the charge in grains of smokeless powder used rather than black powder as with such cartridges as the .32-40, .38-55, .45-70, .45-90, etc.

In December of 1896, the first .30 W.C.F. “Short Range” cartridge appeared. The cartridge illustration was shown as the .30-6-100 since the cartridge contained a 100 gr. lead bullet and 6 grains of powder. It was described as “for small game where the more powerful cartridge is not necessary". It effectively gave .32-20 performance.


Winchester recognized the benefit and increased versatility that a factory loading for small game would offer, since the average family would have to sacrifice at least a month’s pay to buy just one rifle, and that one rifle was just about all that most families could afford. With his or her magazine full of these .30 W.C.F. “Short Range” rounds, hunters could use their big game rifles to harvest turkeys, squirrels and other small game animals with no meat loss. Then, if bigger game was expected to be encountered, a quick change to the standard .30 W.C.F. cartridge would handle that situation.

A few months later, Marlin followed suit with their .30-30 MARLIN SMOKELESS “Short Range” cartridge made by U.M.C.

(should read 100 gr.)

The first 170gr. loading appeared a year later from U.M.C. but it wasn’t until 1903 when Winchester also offered the same 170 gr. loading. I guess they felt the 160 gr. bullet worked well enough!


In 1904, Winchester increased the lead bullet weight from 100 to 117 grs. and the following year, they also offered a 117 gr. soft point and a 117 gr. full metal patch version.


(should read 117 gr.)

These new “Short Range” cartridges were easily identified as having a cannelure part way down the case neck. Originally, it was used to keep the soft lead bullet from being pushed into the case under spring pressure while in the magazine. It was not needed with the metal patched bullets, but was retained to distinguish them from the full power .30 W.C.F. cartridges which looked similar.

Winchester cartridges retained the .30 W.C.F. designation on their headstamps and advertising up until about 1946 after which they changed their nomenclature to .30-30. Interestingly, today it's called the .30-30 Winchester but it was Marlin & U.M.C. that gave it that designation.

Over the years, it has been known as the:
.30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS
.30 WINCHESTER
.30 W.C.F.
.30-6-100
.30 Marlin
.30-30 MARLIN SMOKELESS
.30-30 S.
.30-30 W.C.F.
.30-30 Win.
.30 American (Federal case, small primer)
DWM 543 (Germany)
7.62x51R (Europe)

This famous cartridge has been factory loaded with a wide number of bullets, ranging from 85 gr. to 180 grs. in weight (excluding the 55 gr. Accelerator cartridge.).

Over the years it has been available in the following bullet weights according to my research: 55J, 85J, 100L, 100J, 110J, 114L, 114J, 117L, 117J, 125L, 125J, 150J, 151J, 160J, 165J, 170L, 170J & 180J. (L-lead J-jacketed)

Numerous ammunition manufacturers from around the globe have .30-30 ammunition as part of their product line. By 1929 Winchester advertising indicated that it was "world famous for it’s accuracy and killing power".

Historically, this famous cartridge is very diversified, having been loaded with these numerous bullet weights and types, with velocities ranging from 1,100 f.p.s.( lead bullet short range) to 2,720 f.p.s.(110 gr.), and a heavy weight 180 gr. Peters loading making the .30-30 adaptable to a wide variety of uses over the years.

At 108 years of age, there isn't any sign of it losing it's popularity. Long live the .30-30!

(images courtesy of John Witzel who has over 500(!) variations of .30-30 cartridges.)

John
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Last edited by John Kort; 12-31-2003 at 12:45 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2003, 07:31 PM
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Very nice write-up, John! Learn a few things every day... (hopefully)... now, isn't it interesting that the proposed 'new' military cartridge will have the same head size (not rim) as the grand old .30-30? By all accounts the 'new' cartridge is based on the .30 Remington which was Remington's answer to the .30-30, adapted for semi-auto and pump rifles...

Heck maybe the soldiers will revert back to the .45-70 in a few more year's time!
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2003, 04:28 AM
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Thumbs up Here's Some More 'HISTORY' On The 30-30!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG
By all accounts the 'new' cartridge is based on the .30 Remington which was Remington's answer to the .30-30, adapted for semi-auto and pump rifles...

Heck maybe the soldiers will revert back to the .45-70 in a few more year's time!

7.62X51R

Several articles on the link below, including the two below it on the 30-30 ~ 7.62X51R! Be sure to read down the first 30-30 article to the part about the 30-30 Improved (180gr @ 2500fps+)!!

GOOD LUCK!

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/default.htm

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/3030Again.htm

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/...030varmint.htm
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2003, 04:29 AM
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I also enjoyed your write up and found it very interesting. I purchased my first 30-30 just a few months ago and am entering into the interesting realm of this caliber as I cast and reload for it. I would like to see more information like this shared on this site on some of the other old established calibers. Some of us newbies find this information very interesting.
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2003, 11:19 AM
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Many authorities state the parent cartridge for 30-30 was 32-40. I'm NOT argueing, just repeating what I've been led to believe as truth.

I'm a huge fan of the 30-30 as a hunting cartridge. It always gets the job done without damaging much meat. The 30-30 is an excellent alternative choice for the skilled hunter who is considering black powder or handgunning to make his hunts more challenging.

But I feel that the novice western hunter with little patience and marginal stalking skills is better served by a more powerful cartridge such as .308, .270, or 7mm-08. The 30-30 is more of a skilled hunter's cartridge at least for hunting open country. Distances beyond 175 long paces or so should be avoided with this "oldy-but-goody".
TR
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  #6  
Old 12-31-2003, 09:47 AM
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MikeG,
Thank you for the kind words. I wasn't aware of a new military cartridge, so thank you for the "heads up".

cturpin,
Thank you also. Welcome to the world of shooting leverguns and crafting your own cartridges!

T.R.,
Yes, I have also read that the .32-40 was the parent cartridge, but if that was so, the .30-30 case would be 2.12"+ long. It is 2.03" long.

.32-40 and .38-55 cartridge cases have the same case head dimensions as the .38-50 except they are longer.

The .38-50 case has an overall length of 2.00". When necked to .30-30 dimensions, the case grows to 2.03", the same as the .30-30.

Sincerely,
John
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  #7  
Old 01-25-2004, 05:11 AM
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The Peters 180 gr. .30-30 cartridge (circa 1938-1950) loaded with their "Belted Bullet" was the heaviest bullet weight offered in a factory loading. Peters indicated that this bullet was non-disintegrating, having a belt that would stop expansion at a certain point. Published factory ballistics indicated a muzzle velocity of 2,120 f.p.s.

Here are 2 different variations from the John Witzel collection.




Sako also offered .30-30 ammunition with a 180 gr. soft point bullet back in the '60's.



John
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Last edited by John Kort; 01-25-2004 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 01-27-2004, 06:14 AM
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Nice and informative. Got anything like that for the .32 WS?

The more I read, the more I would like to go and get a 30-30, even though the .32 WS is so close to being the same. There certainly is a greater variety of bullet weight for the 30-30.

Thanks again!
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2004, 05:49 PM
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nfmMike,

Thank you for the kind words. As one does research on a topic (or in this case a cartridge) one would typically uncover information on related topics.

The history of leverguns and their cartridges just drips with nostalgia and the .32 W.S. is part of it.

I did run across some historic information in the .32 W.S. in my travels. It was first loaded with a 165 gr. bullet, followed by the 170gr., then a 110 gr. open point expanding (hollow point) and then a 180 gr. bullet by Peters similar to the .30-30 cartridge above.

It was first mentioned in Winchester's catalog No. 68 dated January 1902. This is what that catalog indicated:

“The .32 Winchester Special Cartridge, which we have just perfected, is offered to meet the demand of many sportsmen, for a smokeless powder cartridge of larger caliber than the .30 Winchester (.30-30) and not yet so powerful as the .30 U.S. Army (.30-40), which could be reloaded with black powder and give satisfactory results.

The .32 Winchester Special Cartridge meets all of these requirements. Loaded with Smokeless powder and a 165 gr. bullet, it has a muzzle velocity of 2,057 foot seconds. With a charge of 40 grs. of black powder, the .32 Winchester Special develops a velocity of 1,385 foot seconds, which makes it a powerful black powder cartridge."

No doubt the fact that it could be reloaded with black powder and give good results, would have been important for the black powder crowd that still wasn't convinced about the new fangled smokeless powder. If they didn't like the smokeless loading, all was not lost.

Another thought is that the .32-40 caliber had been popular since it's introduction in 1884 and had a devoted following. It is possible that many of these .32-40 users asked Winchester to offer a more powerful .32 caliber cartridge that would give better results on big game. Thus the .32 W.S. was born.

I think that there is a very good possibility that if the .32 W.S. was introduced before the .30 W.C.F. / .30-30, it would have been the .32 W.S. that prevailed.

History sure is interesting!
John
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:08 PM
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John,

I've sure enjoyed your information here. I'm looking forward to your book.... what's the status there? I really appreciate the historical aspects of your presentation here. Many thanks, and my hat's off to you!

God Bless,
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:07 PM
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I've been shooting guns all my life , at least since I was 6 years old, & just got my first 30-30. Thats been almost 60 years. I think I'm gonna love it. Your information just makes it all the more pleasant. Thank You
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Old 02-01-2004, 05:39 AM
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John,

Fascinating posts, all of them!
FWIW, the Model 1894 in 32 Winchester Special was announced in 1902 with some sporadic delivery. Officially introduced in 1903. The first 32WS was assembled on March 4, 1902 using receiver # 27, 158 (1895).
There are known specimens with serials as low as 15,500 range, but shipping dates are 1902-1903. The chambering was discontinued in 1973, then reintroduced in 1982, Wrangler model only.
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Last edited by DLS; 02-01-2004 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:18 AM
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John, DLS, thanks for the information, and yes, I do know how researching one thing lends itself to finding out about others on the way.

Are you writing a book on firearm history? When can I look forward to seeing it?
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:46 PM
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Marshall,
Thank you for the kind words. Well, I've completed 4 chapters with 2 or 3 to go and they are easier ones. Hopefully I'll finish it this year.......................

Butch,
Thank you also. I will bet that you will really enjoy that .30-30. Glad I was able to provide a historical background. I have found it just makes it that more interesting.

DLS,
Thank you also. And thank you for the additional input on the .32 W.S.

nfmMike,
You are more than welcome. What I am putting together is a .30-30 journal entitled ".30-30 W.C.F. ......100+ Years Of Shooting History". It has a number of cartridge illustrations, catalog cuts from some of the very early Winchester & UMC catalogs, and a treatise on every factory load that was made from 1895 to the present. I have worked with several cartridge collectors and one Winchester authority so, hopefully I have all the information that I need.

John
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Old 02-04-2004, 04:13 AM
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John,
Extreamly informative!! When can a copy of your book be reserved?-JDL
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  #16  
Old 02-08-2004, 07:15 PM
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JDL,

I'm glad that you found it useful. Thank you. Hopefully, I'll finish it before the end of this year. I still have at least 2 chapters to go and then I want to add a reloading chapter on duplicating the historic, discontinued factory loadings of the past.

I'll let you and the folks here know when it is completed.

John
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Old 08-07-2005, 02:51 AM
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Just wanted to resurrect this thread and express thanks for refreshing my memory on the underrated 30-30.
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Old 08-07-2005, 11:17 PM
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Thumbs up

Thanks, I am going to start hunting (again) with the 30-30. I have worked up a load which I use a NP 165gr and file the tip flat for the mag in the Marlin, I moly it and get about 2400 to 2500 fps out of it. It is 160 gr load (I read years ago about the original 160 and that is why I tried this one and it is GREAT).
THANKS AGAIN,
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Old 09-11-2006, 03:09 PM
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Question

John Kort:
You sure have given us a lot of info. Some people are "real tight" about sharing. You sure are the exception. Am I wrong in remembering that the 38-55 had more to do with the 30-30 than all others?
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:52 AM
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John Kort,
I too would like to put my name on a few copies of your forthcoming 30-30 book. I've got a few mates here in Australia that would love a copy.
Please keep us informed of where and when.

Regards,
David C
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