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  #1  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:09 PM
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.30-30 Discussion


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I am working up a round for a Winchester .30-30 with a 26" octagon barrel. The gun has a Williams FP Peep Sight. Earlier this week I had it zeroed at 25 yds. A fellow shooter told me it should be dead on at 100 yds. The powder is H4895, 30.2 grns. and the bullet is 150 grns. Was the onlooker correct in his statement? It's a nice load and pleasant to shirt even in summer clothes.
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:29 PM
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Best idea I think would be to shoot it at that range.
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  #3  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:31 PM
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I have no way to guess if he was correct or not. With a factory-equivalent load, you would be a couple of inches or so high at 100 yards; but your load is more than a grain less than Hodgdon's listed starting load, and more than 3 gr. below their max, which is approximately a factory equivalent.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:32 PM
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No, wrong. It will be close, but not on at 100%.

ND59 is right, you will have to shoot it at 100% to get it on at 100%. that 25-37 yard rule of thumb is OK to get it on the paper at 100%. But it will not be dead on, just close.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:36 PM
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Hmm, I'm not sure what all the percent signs are about, but HarryS is right about it being close, but not on, at 100 yards.

That rule is generally more for scoped rifles and higher velocity. With the lower line of sight you get from a peep sight and the lower velocity of a 30/30, the odds are you will be low at 100 yards. You'd probably want to be about an inch high at 25 yards, using the peep, so that the bullet is farther above the bore already.
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2012, 04:21 PM
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We have a Buffalo Bill Commemorative with 26” barrel and Williams receiver sight.
Our rifle will shoot Winchester 150-grain Power Points 2,419 fps.

The 160-grain plastic tip Hornady LeveRevolution chronograph 2,378 fps.

I have not chronographed a Hodgdon 4895 load as light as the one you are using.
A good 150-grain bulk Remington JRN load using Hodgdon 4895 is 34.0 gr which chronographs 2,429 fps from the 26” barrel. I have had some ups and downs with this load accuracy wise with this load but I believe my problems were crimp related.

A handload with the 160-grain Hornady LeveRevolution bullet and 35.0 grains of IMR 4895 delivers 2,431 fps - this is a good load in the Buffalo Bill rifle.

If you are looking at starting loads consider Hodgdon Benchmark with the bulk 170-grain Remington JRN bullet. 25.4 grains of Hodgdon Benchmark delivers excellent accuracy at 1,718 fps.

A good light load with the 170-grain JFN Hornady bullet is 28.5 grains of Hodgdon 4895 for 1,950 fps.

29.5 grains will give you 2,013 fps and this one is a good starting load for the 170-grain bullet - although I do not spend a lot of time at this intermediate velocity - I either load very light or 80% or more.

If you are looking for the BEST performance from you 26” barrel try the 170-grain bulk JRN Remington bullet and 34.0 grains of Hodgdon Varget this load giving 2,380 fps.
For years my favorite deer hunting load in the 307 Winchester developed 2,350 fps and this is one fine load for white tail deer at any distance you care to shoot. Load any of the 170-grain bullets to 2,350+ fps and go hunting - you have the best load available. I prefer the Speer 170-grain bullet.

Let’s assume that your load will give you 2,100 fps.
You did not say which bullet you are using but lets assume a 150-grain Sierra.
Zero for 100- yards and your bullet will be .48” low at 25 yards and using an 8” target circle - 4” above and below the sight line you have a point blank range of 158-yards. This is not a bad sight setting as most of us will not shoot at many deer beyond 150-yards using iron sights.
If you were to sight your rifle in at 150-yards this would give you a point blank range of 190-yards.
With this sight setting your bullet will be just about right on at 25-yards, 1.80” high at 60-yards, 2” high at 100-yards and .67” low at 160-yards. If you were looking for the best of everything at your probable velocity this would be where I would start.

I prefer the 170-grain bullets but the 150-grain bullets kill deer very well.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Iorg View Post

Lets assume that your load will give you 2,100 fps.
You did not say which bullet you are using but lets assume a 150-grain Sierra.
Zero for 100- yards and your bullet will be .48 low at 25 yards and using an 8 target circle - 4 above and below the sight line you have a point blank range of 158-yards. This is not a bad sight setting as most of us will not shoot at many deer beyond 150-yards using iron sights.
If you were to sight your rifle in at 150-yards this would give you a point blank range of 190-yards.
With this sight setting your bullet will be just about right on at 25-yards, 1.80 high at 60-yards, 2 high at 100-yards and .67 low at 160-yards. If you were looking for the best of everything at your probable velocity this would be where I would start.

I prefer the 170-grain bullets but the 150-grain bullets kill deer very well.
What distance above the bore did you use in the above calculations? It looks like you used the standard 1.5" scope mounting height and for a peep sight system, that will skew your results. :twocents:
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  #8  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:13 AM
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OK, I am fixing to stir up a can of worms here. Your fellow shooter is wrong. It will probably be about 2" high at 100 and so will 90% of the rifles used to hunt under the sun and a 25 yard zero IF DONE CORRECTLY will give a perfect hunting zero.

Now, here is the problem, most people can't zero their guns at 25 yards because they don't understand that .5" is a major problem (when figured in at 100, it magically becomes 2" of deviation).

BUT, if the gun hits exactly right on at 25, it will have a pretty decent hunting zero....PERIOD

AGAIN, most people can't do that. But, PROVE ME WRONG. Zero at 25 and go to 100 and see where the bullet is at.

BTW, to zero at 25 and then double-check at 100 is common-sense, but we all knew that. Some people double-check all the way to 300, or more.
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:40 AM
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Yes, of all the dumb things. I was fixated on the velocity and ignored the iron sight height.

I went back and used .75” height above the bore.



Still assuming a 150-grain Sierra flat nose bullet at 2,100 fps.



The result is a bit better. If you sight your rifle in at 175 yards you will have a point blank range on an 8” target circle of 207 yards.

At 20 yards your bullet is about .87” high.

At 60 yards your bullet is about 3” high.

At 100 yards your bullet is about 3 ” high.



In these days of laser range finders we might be able to use these elevations but the energy level drops below 1,000 ftlbs at about 120-yards and that should probably begin to limit our thoughts on shooting at undisturbed deer.



Considering I am posting on an iron sight thread I need to pay better attention to details!
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by stinky View Post
Some people double-check all the way to 300, or more.

Which is only fair to the animal. I like to shoot on paper at any range I feel I might shoot at out to my limit - which for me is about 200 yards maximum from a field position.
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:08 PM
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According to the free Point Blank software I'm using:

Sighting in with iron sights (.75" above line of bore) shows the following results:

25 yards - .00"
50 yards - .25"
75 yards - .00"
100 yards - (.78") below line of sight

This is what I was expecting. By shooting at 100, you quickly see you need to adjust your sights. I would recommend no more than 2" high at 100 yards.
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  #12  
Old 10-07-2012, 07:17 AM
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It is best to try it. There are a lot of variables.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:14 AM
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I have no way to guess if he was correct or not
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:56 PM
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He might have been ex-military, I think they have something called the Quick Battlefield Sight in that's done at 25 yards, IIRC. But that is with a scoped rifle !
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred243 View Post
He might have been ex-military, I think they have something called the Quick Battlefield Sight in that's done at 25 yards, IIRC. But that is with a scoped rifle !
Have no idea what the military does now, but about 47 years ago we sighted in our M-14s 2in high at 25 meters..peep sight
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2012, 02:36 PM
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With iron sights its supposed to be 12.5 yards, with a scope 25 yards..but I wouldn't bet my life on it..If your going to hunt with any rifle then test it at 100, 200 and 300 yards..With the 30-30 I test them at those ranges..300 is dooable but about maxed out for a 30-30 IMO...Always thought it was a better round than todays pundits tell me it..I have shot a lot of deer and a number of elk with it at ranges up to almost 300 yards in a few instances and it always worked for me.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:17 PM
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Now what really amazes me, is that the Pistolaroes think the 30-30 Winchester is a plan punny caliber! They need to look at a ballistics book someday.

I seldom shot the 150 grn bullets in our 30-30's lever guns. We hunted deer and the bullet used was a Remington Core-Lokt in the 170 grn for better penetration.
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:39 AM
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30-30 is a keeper!

TR

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  #19  
Old 11-30-2012, 02:31 PM
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I am sitting in the deer blind right now with a Rem 700 in 270 on my right and a marlin 336 30-30 with Williams peep sights on my left. Which rifle I use depends on how far the deer is from me. My 30-30 is like a good dog, hard to not take hunting with you.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:37 AM
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It takes about 200yds to see much difference between bullets in a .30-30, when loaded to the top end of a good powder.

As a reference, I recently replaced the front sight on my M336, as I can shoot better groups with a 1/16 white bead. The fiber optic was easy to see in low light, but it seemed to cover way too much target past 100yds.

Long story made short, I bore sighted at 25yds, and at the range I was shooting dead on at the same range, with a 150gr Sierra FP @ 2300fps. At 100yds I was 2" low. Moving the WGRS peep up to place the POI 1" high @ 100yds, I shot 2, 5 shot 2" groups that were landing 1" high on average. Shooting on the 200yd range at a 8" black bull groups opened to a bit more than 5", about 3-3.5" low, but all shots were landing on the 8" bull.

The POI for 170gr bullets is lower than the 150's by about 5" in my rifle. Looking at notes from last year with the original brass bead. The 170gr Sierra FP's sighted 1" high at 100yds are about 6" low at 200yds, (2100fps).

I have not used a 2" high @ 100yds for my .30-30, as I just do see well enough to use the advantage, and will probably never pull the trigger on game past about 150yds, maybe 175yds if I can find a convenient rest.

The 26" barrel might be a bit different, and the FP's sit a bit lower than a WGRS. But the difference wouldn't be huge.
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