i have a marlin model 1894 .44 mag,i was told by a friend that with a 240 grain jhpt, that anything under 200 yrds will drop like a load of bricks~! well i tend to question that i know that .44mag is a big game cartridge but my question is this---im wondering is it will stop a full grown grizzly bruin at a dead charge~?:

Considering that a 44 mag has about the same energy that a 30-30 has I wouldn't want to be facing a charging grizzly with it. If you've ever seen a grizzly at full charge you'd want something like a 458 Win mag instead of a 44.

I spent five years in Alaska hunting and I've killed a grizzly with a 44, but it was chewing on someone else at the time. Most of the units stationed up there carried 12 gauge shotguns when they were in the field training.

By the way I spent 25 years handgun hunting and you might tell your friend that cast bullets work much better on big game than jacketed bullets out of a 44 mag. That from better than 19 Black bear and way more deer.

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Bob from Idaho

What he said!

44 Mag. in a carbine picks up about 300 fps over a handgun. But that's still not enough gun for a Grizz. At a bear minimum (sic/pun intended ) I'd opt for 45/70 Govt. in a 350 gr. bullet. But I'd feel comfortable with a .458 Win. Mag and 400 gr. pills or heavier.

Grizz is a really, really, really big bear, nasty disposition -- especially after being "stung" by a 44 Magnum.

I have a Marlin carbine in 44 mag. It's for deer, coyotes, pests . . . Excellent choice for general purpose "truck gun."

I really love some of these comments. Really out in left field. A 44 1894 might pick up 300FPS over a 12 inch contender but 500 to 600 over a 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 inch revolver and even more over a shorter one. Most factory 44 loads tested in vent barrels do not even crack 900 FPE at muzzle while a 44 rifle can get close to 2000 FPE. To suggest that a 44 rifle with proper bullets would just sting a bear is pretty silly but coming form someone that thinks you need a 458 to hunt one it is not surprising. If you are so unsure of you ability and coolness under fire that you need a cannon to hunt with stay home. This is not to say that a 44 mag rifle is the perfect gun for this because it is not but in cool hands and some hard cast 300 grain Kieth style bullets with some warm loads it would do the job if you did yours. A well place shot with a lesser gun is better than a poorly placed shot for a bigger one. If a 44 mag rifle has a weakness overall it is that most 44 mag 240 grain loads have thin jackets and soft cores and open up quickly in deer sized game which limits performance on really large game. Mountain men were regularly killing bears with RB ML's over 150 years ago yet today you think you need a 458 minimum. The real difference is back then they knew how and where to shoot while today, few do and try to make up for it with a big cannon. I guess all the grizz that have been taken over years with ML's, 06, 30-40 krags, 30-30, 35. 338, 7mm rem mag and so on must had bears stand up and pose for them and then roll over dead on command because they were under gunned. In close quarter in the time you would take to get off 1 shot with a 458 and hope is it a good one, you can get off 2 or 3 aimed ones with a 44 mag rifle or even a 444. I think that some of the bears in to wood are not as dangerous as some of the hunters out there with cannons. BTW, you are kinda scary too using a 44 mag rifle for pests. Glad you do not live and hunt around here.

54 cal, I FWIW, I agree 100%. I have never hunted griz, much less shot one, but I am confident that good shot from the 44 mag or lowly 30-30 will do the the job. I have shot several old big bulls with both calibers, and they work quite well on those. Killed dozens of large domestic hogs with a well placed shot from a single shot .22 rifle.

Here is what my Marlin 1894 .45 with 24 inch barrel does. With 23 grains of Lil'Gun, and Hornady 250 XTP. Through and through on 1/8 inch wall of this pipe. That is 1/4 inch of iron. I think it would work on about anything I will encounter.

That would leave a mark on anything I could come up with...even a big ol' grizzly.

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We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf. -George Orwell

I guess you have killed a lot of grizzly bears, huh? Glad we can benefit from your experience.

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MikeG

The original question was "I'm wondering is will it stop a full grown grizzly bruin at a dead charge?

There's a lot of difference plinking a grizzly or brown bear that doesn't know your there or isn't full of adrenalin coming at you with murder on it's mind. How silly to think a 30-30 or a 44 magnum handgun round will stop it. Loads of documentation here that proves differently, but think what you want and I'd be the last to tell anyone to not try it out. I just won't be standing behind you. I've seen how fast a mad grizzly can run. Also keep in mind that a big browns heart beats around 13 beats a minute and they can soak up a lot of damage while doing a lot of damage.

For me I'll stick to something a little more powerful. I doubt that you'll find many folks hunting dangerous game in Africa armed with 44 mags or 30-30's. I'd certainly think that a big grizzly or brown bear can be as dangerous at a cape buffalo or full grown lion.

During the time I spent in Alaska we had about one citizen a year killed by a big brown or grizzly while hunting. Usually a bear the citizen wounded and followed into the brush. You can fool around with the 44's and the 30-30's, but I packed either a 375 H&H or my 8mm Remington mag when brown bear hunting.

Bears have been killed with low power guns, in fact one of the largest killed in Canada was killed by a native woman sitting on top of a cash when the bear climbed up there with her. She shot it thru the roof of the mouth with a single shot 22 rimfire rifle. I bet she wished she had a 30-30 or a 44 mag at the time.

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Bob from Idaho

I wasn't recommending the 44 or 30-30 as a round to hunt griz with. Myself I would carry my 45-70. I do however(never charged by griz mind you) feel fairly sure I could stop one with either. Sure would beat a stick.

George it's obvious that you've never seen a grizzly in full charge and mad.

I always appreciate the arm chair experts. I was on the Russian River in Alaska when a big grizzly sow charged a friend while we were fishing. To say that bear moved fast was something of an understatement.

It covered 60 feet faster than I could get the Smith 29 out of my shoulder holster. If it had been coming for me rather than my fishing partner I would have never got a shot off before it got to me.

I killed that bear at six to 10 feet with a shot thru both ears with a 44 mag revolver, but I have no idea how I kept from peeing my pants and I was sure even after I shot it that it was going to get up and come after me. I put four shots thru that bears head and was shaking so badly that I couldn't reload the gun.

If you don't short circuit their brain or break bones that will keep it from running they can soak up a lot of hurt and still do a person some lethal damage. I don't think a 458 Winnie is undergunned at all. I packed a short barreled 12 gauge shotgun loaded with the meanest slugs I could get from then on when out fishing. Probably couldn't have gotten it in action any quicker than the 44, but I did feel better.

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Bob from Idaho

First off penetration through steel does not equate to penetration in meat.
Second the old timers with muzzle loaders had a hard time putting Grizzly Bears down. Check your history before posting how regularly they did it. One of the famous old time Grizzles of the old west was killed by a rancher that hunted this bear for years, because the bear killed his livestock, when he finally got a chance to take the bear it took every round that he had to put the bear down and he was useing a cartridge fed rifle. The old rancher had hunted this bear for a long time and respected him so he buried him. The Smithsonian now has the remains.

Bob is correct until you have sen a Grizz in a hurry, you can not comprehend how fast that they are.

No I haven't seen a mad griz charging. I also don't claim to be an armchair expert on them. I do however have confidence in my shooting(even under fire. Combat Vet)) I have shot mad bulls charging on more than one occasion. A couple of those went over 2000 pounds, and dropped those with a well placed shot from 44's, and 30-30's. Like I said, if I were hunting them it would be with the 45-70 or larger, but for hiking, I would feel Ok with my 44 or 30-30 packing heavy loads. I did drop a 420 pound black bear in VA with one shot from my Marlin 30-30. He did get up, and run off about 60 feet before dying, but I could have shot again if needed, and would have had he ran toward me.

Now for all I know the 44 or 30-30 may bounce off a grizzly, but if confronted by one, and forced to shoot, it will be with whatever I have on me.

I have no doubt about your skills or ability to shoot George. Nor do I doubt that with the right shot a 44 mag will kill a grizzly, I did and so have other folks. The problems comes if you don't happen to hit it just right, then what happens.

Old griz is faster than a race horse for short distances and a frontal charge does not leave you with much to shoot at. Unless you short circuit it's brain or spinal cord or break some big bones that allow it locomotion you may have a hard time stopping it. If it's charging you it's probably also not to happy.

Of the several big bears I shot in Alaska I always preferred a side shot where I could break the front shoulders. Remove the means of locomotion and there's time for another killing shot. I used both a 375 H&H mag pushing well built 270 grain bullet or my 8mm Rem mag pushing well constructed 220 grain bullets. I always used a follow up shot even if I did not need it on a brown bear. Of the few grizzly/brown kills I made all were without incident, but I've been on a couple of hunts with other folks that really could have turned out nasty.

I went with a new Captain assigned to our unit one year. We found a nice bear down in a small hollow about 75 yards from us and from up on the ridge where we were watching he appeared not to see us. I told my friend to just sit and wait til the bear turned sideways and do a front shoulder shot with his nice new 375. I don't know if he winded us or what, but the bear stood up facing straight on toward us and the next thing I hear is that 375 going off.

The bear went down like it was pol axed. He says lets go down and get it. I says lets just sit here for a while. The bear wakes up about 20 minutes later. He had hit it right on the forehead at a shallow angle and took a six inch diameter patch of hide and fur off the top of it's skull. It wasn't dead and it certainly wasn't happy when it woke up.

I never seen such a mad animal in my life. It was squealing and tearing up the ground and running around in circles biting at the brush and it's self and ripping whole patches of brush out of the ground. When it stopped for a moment I and my friend broke the front shoulders with my 8mag and his 375. End of Mr. bear, but I put another round it for good measure.

It tore up the ground where it woke up in a 30 foot circle including pulling out 10 foot high clumps of brush with three foot roots attached. It looked like the ground had been roto-tilled.

There's lots of incidents where folks armed with a variety of rifles and handguns have had grizzly/brown bear encounters and were unable to stop a charging bear. Yes try with whatever you have handy, I would because the alternative is not something any of us want to contemplate and some simply don't live thru. I can guarantee that if you do make a good shot and stop the bear it can be a life changing happening.

Just keep in mind that these are big animals armed with sharp claws and teeth and though not bullet proof there are plenty of documented incidents of folks that were crack shots of steadfast courage are now growing a rock in a grassy place with a born and died date on that rock.

This is one case where we are not at the top of the food chain and a bigger gun along with the ability to shoot it well sure seems to be good insurance to me.

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Bob from Idaho

There are two class of hunters. Ones that really know what they are doing and are cool under fire and know how and where to places shoot and those that let emotions rules them and throw wild shot and hope that big cannons will save their arse. Further they will compare a poorly place shot with a 44 mag pistol to that of a 44 mag rifle even though a rifle can double or more its effective hitting power. A shoot through the ears of a bear is a bad choice because it will miss the brain and likely tick bear off more. Had this shot be properly placed it would have went down like it had been hit by lighting. The fault was not the 44 but the person shooting it. Had the shot been placed a bit lower and a bit more forward (toward muzzle) the game would have been over. Bears are not Sherman tanks and they can be killed with lessor calibers IF you place your shots well. Eskimos have been killing polar bears for many years with 30-30's and they can dwarf a grizz. Hunters that shoot wildly and blame guns have no business hunting and give hunters and guns bad names. IF you place your shoot CORRECTLY you will have your bear reliably, even with a 30-30 or a 44 mag rifle. Bigger guns are to make of for lack of hunting skill and shot placement. Also I like the way the poster morphs from North American hunting to African hunting in a attempt to save face. Again a 44 mag rilfe is not the perfect road for a big bear but with proper loads and a cool head/hand on trigger it is fully capable of doing the job. The quality and skill of the hunter is the determining factor here not ego. BTW, if I was fishing in big bear country I would carry bear pepper spray as first line of defense as it does work and does not kill the bear too which has as much right to that stream as you do (actually even more) and should not be killed because you crossed it path unwisely. The real dangerous mammal in the woods is not the big bear but rather the man, the one with the brain and that does not use it wisely as seen in above posts.

In Alaska there is a Video called "No Land For The Timid" where they shoot a Polar Bear 7 or 8 times with a 375 H&H and it won't go down and stay. Quite amazing to say the least.

1-Even the very best shots that ever lived on this planet have and miss at times in these situations. To say that doesn't happen is just flat out wrong. If you think that a 44 mag shoot from a rifle (on big large/game) is noticable better than the same round from a revolver, dream on.

2-The shot was perfectly placed the first shot put the bear on the ground. He put more rounds into the Bear for insurance

3- Where did you get this tid bit of information? I lived in Alaska for 7 years and the 30-30 was not a much used caliber

4- Where did you come up with this erroneous jewell. Proper shot placement is paramount with any caliber. To state that a larger caliber makes up for poor shot placement is non-sense

5- How well is that going to work in a high wind . What if you are caught between a Sow and her Cubs and the wind is in your face. How is Pepper Spray (not to be confused with "Bear Spray") going to stop a full out charge at very close range?

6- No animal has more rights than People. That is a ridiculous statement

I would stay away from the JHP in 44 mag for large heavy game especcialy Bears. A large Meplat Flat Point Hard Cast of 300 or more grains is a much better choice.
Whoever told you to use a 240 JHP is low on experience in the matters that he is offering advice on.

I think we've about wrung all the good out of this thread were going to. Lets move on to other things. Lots of folks have a mind set about a situation that they've never experienced and no amount of real facts will change that. I'm locking the thread.

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Bob from Idaho