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  #1  
Old 12-10-2012, 08:23 PM
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336 .219 Zipper Info Wanted


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I've been searching in vain for a Model 1894 .218 Bee. Noticed an SC 336 in .219 Zipper coming up at auction locally; wasn't aware of this 1950s-era rifle. Research shows these were hard on the Micro-Groove barrels and, except for the few that were produced with a longer barrel, they aren't worth a whole lot. There's at least one dude out there who'll convert a modern .30-30 to a Zipper, which might be more practical. And, what about reloading this round (bullets, brass forming, etc.?) Just thinking out loud and thanks for any info.

Last edited by coopercommando; 12-12-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:14 AM
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To my knowledge only two American rifles were made for the .219 Zipper, Winchester's model 64 and Marlin's model .336. The .219 Zipper wasn't very popular as there were no commercial bolt actions made for it. Also the .222 Remington more or less killed it off. Ammo for the .219 Zipper can be found (factory loads) but they are collectables costing several $$$. You can make .219 Zipper ammo by reforming .25-35 or .30-30 cases with forming dies, which are also expensive. The .219 Zipper is a DEAD number likely never to return.
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2012, 06:16 AM
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The Zipper cartridge is and excellent varmint round. winchester made it in top opening lever guns which severly compromised the ability to use a scope of the day (most had external adjustments). So it was a super accurate cartridge stuck in a dud rifle. Marlin had the solid top receiver but it just wasn't enough to keep the cartridge alive.

Hundreds of 219 Zippers were chambered in the Krag military rifle and were prized for varmint and benchrest shooting. the 30-40 Krag is rimmed and the action fit the 219 perfectly. Most of these rifles had heavy weight barrels and had the unique mag of the Krag blocked of and solid. I still see these era 219 at gun shows and spend some time talking to the old timers with them. Unfortunately the barrels on these bench guns of the 19-40-50s are shot out. Never hear of the 219 as a barrel burner; but in a good bolt gun with reloads it is a 3600 fps+ cartridge... so! Basically the cartridge was way more accurate than the commerical action/rifles that it was sold in.

I've been looking for a Marlin 336 in 219 for 10+ years, I've not found them even available even at an unreasonable price. (I also have been looking for a 25-35).


If you can get the 336/219 at auction...GO FOR IT. Conversion is possible of a 30-30 but a new barrel will be needed $$ so I'd get the original one, IF you can. Cases can be made from 30-30 brass so that is no problem

If you can PM me the contact info for the guy who will build a 219 oout of a 30-30, I'd like to check that out.

Go For It.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS View Post
The Zipper cartridge is and excellent varmint round. I've been looking for a Marlin 336 in 219 for 10+ years, I've not found them even available even at an unreasonable price. (I also have been looking for a 25-35).
Here's one Harry: Marlin 336 SC Zipper - Marlin Rifles

Ammo Too: http://www.gunsinternational.com/219...n_id=100281706

Last edited by Davers; 12-11-2012 at 07:18 AM.
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:05 AM
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thanks Davers. Nice rifle, seems to be in excellent shape, even has the front sight hood. 3/4 mag tube. seems to have the scope and receiver sight screw plugs, but does have a trigger side extension. They were after market for the years up to about 1970, then Marlin started putting one in the box with a new rifle and those had the Marlin logo on them.

Asking $1500, heads up Cooper "they aren't worth a whole lot". buy that one if it is still available.

At $1500 rebarrelling (a 30-30 donor rifle) is a cheaper way to go, and you might get a longer, better barrel...if you want a shooter not a collector.
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:02 AM
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I have a 336SC 219 Zipper with its original bull barrel. I was lucky to find it in a small gun shop close to Scranton PA about 10 years ago and gave $750 for it. In the (very good) shape that it was/is in, it would easily bring over $1K today.

I handload for it and this gun is extremely accurate and a hoot to shoot. Cases are available from a guy on Gunbroker....they are formed from 30-30 RP brass. I use the Speer 46gr FP Cannelure bullet pushed to 3,300 fps by H4895 and Rem 9 1/2 LRP. I did a lot of load development and this combination gave me the best groups. Scoped, benched and using a SteadyRest gives me dime-size 5-shot groups at 50 yds and 1 1/4" groups at 100 yds.

Dan
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coopercommando View Post
they aren't worth a whole lot.
Among the Marlin enthusiasts crowd, they considered one of the "holy grails" of modern Marlin leverguns. They are scarce and command high prices.

Dan
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:38 AM
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While the .219 Zipper, in itself, is an accurate round, the two (Winchester & Marlin) Zippers failed to sell well, because the RIFLES weren't accurate enough for the target market - varminters.


I wonder what a .30-30 Savage 325/340 or Rem 788 boltgun, rebarreled to Zipper, would do.............



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Last edited by Rangr44; 12-11-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:30 AM
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They almost did. the 340 came in the 225 winchester, a 22 CF with a rimmed case (abit more powder).
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2012, 03:07 AM
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Here's another .219 Zipper rifle:

Winchester Model 64 .219 Zipper - Winchester Rifles
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  #11  
Old 12-20-2012, 05:45 PM
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For around $300 you can have a common 30-30 336 RC relined for the Zipper. I would try to find a 336A with the 24 inch tube for that conversion.
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swany View Post
For around $300 you can have a common 30-30 336 RC relined for the Zipper. I would try to find a 336A with the 24 inch tube for that conversion.
Yeah, I think I'll go in that direction. fwiw, the one at auction was in decent - not great - condition; went for $750, so would have been more if I'd jumped in there. Probably would have been worth a lot more to a collector, but the that ain't me.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2013, 09:38 AM
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.219 Zipper Marlin 336SC for sale

I have one of these I have had for 25 years. I don't shoot it anymore, but have roughly 50 rds for it, plus dies. I am a reloader, but I can't find brass where I live, so it's usually a short shooting session followed by a short reloading session.
About half the brass I have is original, and half necked down 30-30.
I live in Alberta Canada. If anyone nearby is interested, they can send me an email.
About 20 years ago, I had an offer from a gun dealer in Edmonton for $1000, but I turned it down. I would sell it all for $1500 if anyone had any interest.
[email protected]
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:00 AM
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Took me 8 years of searching to find a Marlin 336sc Zipper.They were made from 1955-1960 and they only made 3230 of them.The first year they had a standard diameter barrel.In 1956 the barrel diameter was increased by 1/10" for better accuracy.They all had 20" length and Microgroove rifling.They failed at that time in the marketplace but have become quite valuable in the collector market in the last 10 years.I would not bother with the expensive original ammo as that is collectable.For handloading buy new Win 25-35 brass.Lube it and run it thru the 219 resizer die and trim it back to a length of 1.928" .You will notice a slight imperfection in the shoulder area due to the differing taper between 219 and 25-35 but not to worry as it will fireform out.I found I have to trim after each firing for a few times before things settle into place.IMR 4320 works well,but I found the best accuracy in my rifle with H4198 and a Sierra 60gr HP bullet.I have shot a 3 shot group at 100yd of 5/8" with it.I place one in the chamber and one in the tube.(I knew what some people would think)Brass can be formed from 30-30 with much more effort and you will likely have to turn down the necks.

L-R 219Z,25-35,32spl,32-40
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Last edited by Levergunz; 02-09-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-28-2013, 06:08 AM
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The fact that 219 zipper did not achieve commercial success was not due to accuracy or effectiveness. That is pure myth. It suffered the same fate as dozens of other promising cartridges. The market can be fickle - who knew?
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  #16  
Old 04-28-2013, 12:47 PM
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When I saw the title of this thread I thought--"too bad is is a 336"..
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  #17  
Old 04-28-2013, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levergunz View Post
best accuracy in my rifle with H4198 and a Sierra 60gr HP bullet.I have shot a 3 shot group at 100yd of 5/8" with it.
Levergunz,

Thanks for sharing. In line with my post above; yes, for those inclined to do appropriate load development, the 336 SC 219 Zipper (I have the bull barrel version) can be darn accurate and effective. I can assure you that 'yotes and other critters here in the Adirondacks don't like 'em.

Dan
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