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  #1  
Old 05-31-2011, 11:23 AM
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Rossi 92 45lc bore diameter


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Hi Folks. I purchased a new Rossi 92 trapper in 45 colt several months ago and have beenreloadinging for it as the factory fodder is both anemic and very inaccurate in my rifle.
I got a good load recipe from Rocky Raab that is both accurate and powerful using IMR 4227 and 250 gr XTP bullets.
Here in Northern Canada the local store only carries jacketed bullets Hornady XTP. The lead bullets he has are all factory soft. I finally found someone who will bring me up some Wolf bullets from Southern Canada which are hard cast and said to be good up tp 1600fps. They are available in .452 or .454 diameter.
My problem is there is no gunsmith here! and I would like to know what the PROBABLE bore diameter is of this rifle as I here Rossi was all over the place years ago. Now this gun shoots the jacketed XTP's darn accurate; but I am getting conflicting advice that cast bullets should be a little oversize??
This specimen is a big loop lever that is from the new Rossi owners Brastech.
Any help would be appreciated before I have a 1000 bullets brought way up north.
I'm a little leery of slugging the barrel myself without a gunsmith anywhere close in case I foul up.
Many thanks
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:55 PM
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I'd try the .452's first. Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2011, 08:09 PM
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Email Steve - he is the expert on the M92s aka R92s http://www.stevesgunz.com/index.htm
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2011, 05:38 AM
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Doc;

I have the Hartford with the 24" barrel and mine swedged .451
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:21 AM
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Rossi 92 bore Diameter

Many thanks for the replies fellas, much appreciated.
I tried phoning Steve in Texas but found out he was ill.
Doc.
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2011, 05:31 AM
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I have luck with .452 in all my modern .45 colts with hard cast bullets. It's unlikely you would need .454, but the truth is, you just don't know your bore diameter unless you slug it yourself. One bore can vary from another even with the same manufacturer.

good luck

Last edited by Strider; 06-02-2011 at 05:39 AM. Reason: double check
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  #7  
Old 06-03-2011, 05:00 AM
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Having cleaned out lots of lead from my various 45 Colts shooting hard cast bullets sized .452, I now use nothing but ,454 that fits the cyclinder mouth/throats.

Jim
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2011, 07:57 AM
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Thanks Arkypete

Yes Arkypete I also phoned Penn Bullets yesterday, and the fellow there also recommended his 255 gr RNFPBB in .454 diameter.
I know My Rossi Puma shoots accurate with the jacketed XTP's which are .452 to my knowledge; BUT I seem to remember reading somewhere that if shooting cast you should go up .002 to achieve the same accuracy. Perhaps you can tell me if this is true.
If I had a few bullets in .454 I could load them without the primer or powder and see how they load and chamber and eject.
Living in the middle of nowhere has its advantages save at times like this and the shipping is half the cost of the bullets so when A fellow down south said he has room to bring me a thousand I' d like to have him bring something I can use well. Would being .002 over in diameter be dangerous?Thanks
Doc
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2011, 03:46 PM
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Doc

I'm deep bone lazy. I got into this casting bullets and reloading so i could shoot more then any fool has the right to expect. I didn't sign on to clean lead out of a revolver. So having spent more time then I thought was appropriate cleaning out lead I started reading everything I could find on cast bullets and stumbled across some real smart writers over the years.
One of the pearls of wisdom I discovered was after WWII to make things less costly all 45 pistol barrels were cut .452. Nobody told the cyclinder makers so they continued making cyclinder mouths .454 to .458. The bullet makers made all the 45 pistol bullets .452 and .451, including the swaged bullets. The shooters came to expect leading, poor accuracy, lead splatter, etc. if they were shooting lead out of a 45 Colt.
This seemed to apply to any factory lead bullet, hand loaded or factory loaded.
Contary to what the 'experts' say 45 Colt lead bullets are supposed to be .454.
Once I started shooting .454 cast bullets I quit cleaning lead out of my revolvers.
My revolver load is 255 grain SWC sized .454, over 8.5 to 9.5 grains of Unique, with a Winchester large pistol primer.
My Winchester 92 load is a 300 grain gas checked bullet sized .454, over 20 grains of H110, with the Winchester large pistol primer. I have no idea what velocity I'm getting with this load, it's accurate, doesn't beat me or the rifle up.
If the leading doesn't cease, try lapping the barrel, Rossi barrel can be rough.

Jim
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  #10  
Old 06-05-2011, 04:54 AM
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Rossi 92 45 colt

Thanks Jim
Much appreciated; I getting into the cast bullets as here in the great whit north everything is priced greatly; from product to shipping For a fact there was $200.00 difference in the cost of a Rossi 92 between Canada and The U.S. and the darn things are made in Brazil. So only a little further shipping.
I guess the great in Great white North stands for Greatly hosed.
Thank the lord our new majority Conservative Gov't is getting rid of the long gun registry this fall. Any way I'm off topic and my question yo you is when do you determine that you need a gas check?
The gent from Penn Bullets when I asked him about a gas check for his 255 grain RNFPBB bullet which I intend to drive with 21 grains of IMR 4227 and a magnum primer told me It was not necessary. So as a newbie to the cast bullet shooting club all advice is greatly appreciated. Many Thanks
Doc.
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  #11  
Old 06-05-2011, 05:29 AM
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Morning Doc

We're supposed to be dry today, which it's not, and planned on finishing up my bullet casting deck. Woke up this morning at 03:00 and it was pouring down rain. Where this is going I'm inside on puter rather then outside putting up railing and steps.
I use gas checks on all of my rifle cast bullets. Maybe a better way to state that is..all of my rifle cast bullets are gas checked.
Most all of my revolver cast bullets are not gas checked. As long as the bullet fits the cyclinder mouth, a tight fit, and I'm keeping the velocity around 1,000 fps, life is good and no leading.
I use gas checked cast bullets at jacketed bullet velocities in my 30-06 model 95 Winchester, 405 Winchester in a model 95, level 3 velocities in a 45-70 Model 1886 Winchester. I did some experimenting using gas checked 90 - 100 grain gas checked bullets at jacked velocities in a Ruger 77 243 Winchester.
If the bullet alloy is correct and the bullet is sized correctly, 1 to 2 1/1000th bigger then the bore you can drop the jacketed bullet and use cast.
Most all of my rifle cast bullets are bore riding. When I chamber the round the bullet has slight engraving the part of the bullet that slides into the barrel.
I do the same with jacketed bullets, slight engraving on the bullet when the round is chambered.

Enjoy your Sunday

Jim
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  #12  
Old 06-05-2011, 10:43 AM
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[quote=arkypete;573854]Doc

One of the pearls of wisdom I discovered was after WWII to make things less costly all 45 pistol barrels were cut .452. Nobody told the cyclinder makers so they continued making cyclinder mouths .454 to .458. The bullet makers made all the 45 pistol bullets .452 and .451, including the swaged bullets. The shooters came to expect leading, poor accuracy, lead splatter, etc. if they were shooting lead out of a 45 Colt.
This seemed to apply to any factory lead bullet, hand loaded or factory loaded.
Contary to what the 'experts' say 45 Colt lead bullets are supposed to be .454.

If the leading doesn't cease, try lapping the barrel, Rossi barrel can be rough.

I think you're partly correct, if you're talking Colts. But the barrels on newer Ruger 45's will almost always measure .451 with undersized cyls. from .448 to .450. Honing or reaming the cylinders to .4525 and shooting .452 sized cast bullets will not be a problem. If the cylinders are not at least a little larger than bore size it won't matter what size bullet you shoot the cyl will swage it to the diameter of the cyl. mouth. I agree with you on the firelapping, made a world of difference in all my Ruger 45s and especially the Rossi 45 rifle.
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  #13  
Old 06-05-2011, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkypete View Post
One of the pearls of wisdom I discovered was after WWII to make things less costly all 45 pistol barrels were cut .452. Nobody told the cyclinder makers so they continued making cyclinder mouths .454 to .458. The bullet makers made all the 45 pistol bullets .452 and .451, including the swaged bullets. The shooters came to expect leading, poor accuracy, lead splatter, etc. if they were shooting lead out of a 45 Colt.
This seemed to apply to any factory lead bullet, hand loaded or factory loaded.
Contary to what the 'experts' say 45 Colt lead bullets are supposed to be .454.
Interesting. Kind of like the 44-40, but some of the modern manufacturers went the other way with it by using a larger 44 Mag/Special bore. A .427 bullet in a .430 barrel will get you leading as well. I know Ruger and Rossi went the oversized barrel route in the 44-40. Marlin stuck with the old barrel size. Haven't had a chance to see what the Italians did.

Willy
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Old 06-05-2011, 01:41 PM
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[quote=simcoe;573919]
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkypete View Post
Doc


I think you're partly correct, if you're talking Colts. But the barrels on newer Ruger 45's will almost always measure .451 with undersized cyls. from .448 to .450. Honing or reaming the cylinders to .4525 and shooting .452 sized cast bullets will not be a problem. If the cylinders are not at least a little larger than bore size it won't matter what size bullet you shoot the cyl will swage it to the diameter of the cyl. mouth. I agree with you on the firelapping, made a world of difference in all my Ruger 45s and especially the Rossi 45 rifle.

You are 100% correct, barrels are .451 rather then .452.
I have one 45 Colt from Ruger, one from Colt and six from Smith and Wesson, and one Rossi model 92.
I started my avoiding leading campaign for the Smiths and carried it thru to the remaining weapons.
As I admitted in an earlier posting I'm born again lazy. most likely I was lazy before that. Any way, I did not make any changes other then sizing my bullets to .454. Wallah, no leading.
My Ruger Black Hawk was my first 45 Colt and it leaded like mad using .452 swaged and commercial cast bullets, using 9.5 grains of Unique. Came close to swapping it off, but I had Micarta grips, Ivory, and a Bianchi Border patrol holster and belt. None of the shooters of my acquaintance could fit the 36 inch belt, so I kept it.
If one of my grandsons shows an interest I may give it to him.

Jim
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  #15  
Old 06-05-2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44-40 Willy View Post
Interesting. Kind of like the 44-40, but some of the modern manufacturers went the other way with it by using a larger 44 Mag/Special bore. A .427 bullet in a .430 barrel will get you leading as well. I know Ruger and Rossi went the oversized barrel route in the 44-40. Marlin stuck with the old barrel size. Haven't had a chance to see what the Italians did.

Willy
Willy
This has nothing to do with 45 Colt.
How difficult is the 44-40 brass to work with?

Jim
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  #16  
Old 06-05-2011, 01:49 PM
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Rossi Puma 45 colt bore

Thanks again fellas; I will go with the .454's in bore diameter and have the gas checks sent as well.
I haven't got a 45 colt pistol as here in Canada you have to go thru hoops forward and backward to have a restricted WEAPON and then you can only polish and admire it unless you belong to a bona fide pistol shooting club. Not too many of those outfits around here. I'm figuring this Hank Williams load at around 1400 - 1500 fps in a 16inch barrel. Know I'll try to figure out what fire lapping a barrel is. Us newbies to shooting cast got to learn somewhere and I thank you all for your indulgence.
Doc.
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2011, 04:27 PM
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Doc
Gas checks only come with and go on cast bullets that are made to fit gas checks.

Jim
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2011, 04:31 PM
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Thanks again Jim; I guess I should have made the connection with the Penn Bullet RNFPBB.
I'm thinking that the BB stands for bevelled Base? so I'm assuminging a gas check would not fit that base?
Doc.
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2011, 03:00 AM
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Doc
You are correct, bevel base bullets will not accept gas checks.

Jim
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  #20  
Old 06-06-2011, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by arkypete View Post
Doc
You are correct, bevel base bullets will not accept gas checks. Jim
Right, a gas check bullet has a reduced diameter ring around the base to accept the gas check. These bullets can be fired with or without the gas check, however, firing without the gas check can result in more leading.
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