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  #1  
Old 06-14-2011, 06:00 PM
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Cast bullet reloading for my Puma 92


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Well Gents : after much time and research into my 45 colt Rossi 92's bore diameter; for the shooting of cast bullets; I'm afraid I've wasted your and my time into this endeavor.
After reading the opinions on manufactured cast bullets by moderators, super moderators, administrators', senior members, members, etc etc; of this and every-other forum on the worldwide web relating to cast bullet shooting: with MY apologies to ALL the cast bullet manufacturers it seems your products are crap in the eyes of all these illustrious folks.
It has been written that these manufactured cast bullets are POSSIBLY accurate all the way out to 25 yards;
RARELY accurate to the great distance of 50 yards; and NO better than a scatter-gun at 100 yards!
Reasons for this are #1 bullets too hard; #2 bullets have bevelled bases; #3 bullets have no gas checks, #4 bullets not bore diameter, bullet going too fast, bullet going too slow, poor quality lube no lube, too much lube, bore not lapped, bore not fire lapped , etc etc.
Apparently cast bullet manufacturers are manufacturing bullets that are EASY to produce. The easier the greater profit potential. But not much shooting potential
Therefore I have come to the opinion that in my particular case: I have no great desire to sit over a casting furnace watching lead alloy melt and reforming it into molds and all that goes with it. And since it is nigh to impossible to buy a cast bullet for hunting unless your game is within 25 yards: that I will stick with my Hornady XTP's which I can get to consistently group within 2 inches at 100 yards with these old eyes.
It has been a real eye opener for me after reading all the negative posts on manufactured cast bullets that any one at all uses them ; or there sure are a lot of 25 yard max hunters and target shooters out there. I'm guessing that that is the reason when we watched them old westerns there was a lot of shooting with them old Winchesters and Colts and not much falling down with all that LEAD, because if all them Cowboys and Outlaws and Lawmen etc. were buying factory cartridges with lead bullets at the General Store its no darn wonder they were spraying lead like a scatter gun trying to hit someone, anyone, anything,.
Darn fools should have been casting lead over the campfire on the range instead of coffee.
Sorry Mr. Hickok, Mr Earp, even Doc; BUT unless you guys were casters I can now understand why most gunfights apparently were less than 20 feet in distance. The seventh shot was throw your gun at your opponents head. No, even these Shooters embraced modern technology for their time by switching to repeating firearms using cartridges instead of staying with cap and ball muzzle loaders.
When the Cast Bullet Manufacturers make a bullet that can serve MY purpose I may consider using their product. Till then I'll keep using the KISS approach to loading.
Doc
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2011, 07:18 PM
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The bullets I cast here are pretty accurate at 100yds. But then I don't buy cast bullets either.
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2011, 04:11 AM
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Doc
Sorry to hear you're giving up. It can get quite complicated, I've likened it to having ear phones on, with one side playing country and the other playing classical.
I agree that that most cast bullet producers are selling self fluxing alloy. Our host is the only cast bullet producer that I know who gives you a choice in diameter and offers gas checked slugs.
The fellow that I used for several years has gone out of business. He had my favorite 357, Saeco mold, 140 grain. I'll have to get back at the pot and make my own now.

Jim
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  #4  
Old 06-15-2011, 09:28 AM
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Clearly you are upset with the conflicting advice.
I would ask a simple question: Have you tried your cast bullets in your rifle. Everything else is speculation and opinion based on their experience. It might be valid for them, but might not work in your case.
Frankly, I do not normally buy into all of the detailed hype that is spun around cast bullets, both my own and those that I buy. While I do not have a .45 Colt Rossi, I do have a couple of them in .357 Magnum/ .38 Special. I have loaded them up with lighter loads, as well as full power hunting loads. I haven't slugged the bores yet, nor do they lead. I can hit what I want from 0-100 metres.
So, why don't you try the bullets you have, or have coming, and see how they work so that you can form your own opinion.
I have had good success with Bullet Barn bullets as well (out of B.C.), and Wolf bullets have also worked well.
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  #5  
Old 06-15-2011, 09:51 AM
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I would give it a go before you decide it can't be done. You never know, that is part of the adventure. There are a lot of general truisms about cast bullets but pulling the trigger is the only way to know what will happen with your gun.

Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2011, 04:16 PM
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yes it may be part of the adventure; but I have never been one to create a problem where one does not exist.
The only cast bullet I could find that had a gas check was by the sponsor of this forum ; But at $27.00/100 that's more expensive than the XTP bullet and may or may not work. I was anxious to pursue the cast lead route for its SUPPOSED MONEY SAVINGS. I just cannot see any advantages in the caliber I want to reload or to the power I want to reload to. Squib loads may-be.
My Grand Pa always used to say if it ain't broke now then don't you go round to fixin it son. Think I'll keep on following his advice.
But I sincerely thank all those that took the time to help me resolve this question for me.
Doc.
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  #7  
Old 06-16-2011, 03:57 AM
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Manufactured cast bullets are crap ? Gee that's funny as I have gotten 5 out of 6 hits on a 15" square steel plate at 110 yards from a 5.5" bbl Ruger 44 Super Blackhawk with em. I cast bullets too, but for my plinking/target loads, manufactured cast bullets are what I use. As long as I do my part, they always do theirs.
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  #8  
Old 06-16-2011, 04:19 AM
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Congrats; You seem to be the exception to the rule on every shooters forum on the internet regarding this issue.

Doc.
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  #9  
Old 06-16-2011, 04:46 AM
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Doc
Sorry for your exasperation over cast bullets. I took up casting because I was raising two baby girls in a small town that had very little in the way of opportunities.
I found one commercial bullet caster, that I could afford, maybe better put, was willing to afford, and he went out of business. His bullets didn't lead, just like my bullets don't lead and they were accurate.
I don't use gas checked bullets on any revolver round, but I can use the 300 grain loads for my Rossi 92 in my Colt Anaconda and Ruger Blackhawk.
Having lapped my Rossi barrel, I've thought about trying some swaged 250s just as an experiment. Winchester and Remington make their swaged 45 slugs over sized and may be fun to see what our great grandfathers worked with.
I bought a 1,000 Speer, Hornady, don't remember which, 250 grain jacketed hollow points right before I got my first Lyman mold, 35 years ago. Those slugs are still in the cabinet. One of these days my kids can sell them as artifacts from a bygone era.
Thanks for letting my ramble.

Jim
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  #10  
Old 06-16-2011, 04:47 AM
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Hang around a bit, Doc, you'll find some success stories here.

My favorite rifle load is a 185 grain cast bullet in my .35 Rem at 2,300fps or so. Shoots under 2 inches at 100 yards.

My very best centerfire handgun loads are cast bullets too. It can be done....
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  #11  
Old 06-16-2011, 11:44 AM
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I use a Lee 158gr RNFP sized to .358 in both my Navy Arms 1892 and Marlin 1894C in 357. I've yet to experience enough leading to talk about.
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2011, 02:24 PM
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Good Evening Gentlemen;
I don't dispute the fact that you can get hard cast bullets to work fine. The main problem is that on every forum I've researched I have found some very learned contributors; Who have contributed to many shooting forums including this one ; writing disparaging remarks about Already Manufactured Hard Cast Bullets.
These Gents to a unanimous agreement Only promote their homemade bullets; each with his own alloy recipe and alloy supplier.
I simply cannot see the advantage of paying approximately 20% more, for example for Beartooth 265 gr WFN GC bullets for my 45 colt.
Cabelas is selling the 250 gr XTP for $23.00/100 and in my situation I know these shoot well in my rifle. The economics are just not there for an item that may not prove as accurate or may just provide more problematic in my gun.
To each his own but where I have to have a friend bring bullets North to me I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Maybe I'll get him to bring me only a hundred ready made cast to try; and pray I haven't bought the worlds most expensive sinkers.
Thanks again for your encouragement
Doc.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2011, 02:26 PM
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Exactly. Like anything else, try a small sample first and see how it goes. Good luck....
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
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My Puma 92 likes cast bullets sized .454 and will feed and shoot them very well.
Why ever would you want a gas checked bullet? Try some plain base, you should be able to get 1600fps if the bullet fits your bore, use 'Ruger Only' loading data.
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  #15  
Old 06-17-2011, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc.Holliday View Post
Good Evening Gentlemen;
I don't dispute the fact that you can get hard cast bullets to work fine. The main problem is that on every forum I've researched I have found some very learned contributors; Who have contributed to many shooting forums including this one ; writing disparaging remarks about Already Manufactured Hard Cast Bullets.
These Gents to a unanimous agreement Only promote their homemade bullets; each with his own alloy recipe and alloy supplier.
I simply cannot see the advantage of paying approximately 20% more, for example for Beartooth 265 gr WFN GC bullets for my 45 colt.
Cabelas is selling the 250 gr XTP for $23.00/100 and in my situation I know these shoot well in my rifle. The economics are just not there for an item that may not prove as accurate or may just provide more problematic in my gun.
To each his own but where I have to have a friend bring bullets North to me I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Maybe I'll get him to bring me only a hundred ready made cast to try; and pray I haven't bought the worlds most expensive sinkers.
Thanks again for your encouragement
Doc.
I agree with you on the price difference, but that stems from the Chinese bidding up the price of lead (and every other metal) in the past few years. The Obama EPA isn't helping either. I used to buy Hunter bullets due to price and the fact that I could pick em up personally and save shipping. I could also exchange them my excess wheel weight alloy to knock off even more off the price. They have since stopped selling outright, now only thru Midway Arms and the prices have gone thru the roof. I switched to Stonewall Bullets, due also to price and personal pickup (he was just off I-49 south of S'port La) But he's retired now and moved. I've gone to a third supplier now, but have yet to shoot what i bought from them. I have every reason to expect though from looking at what I bought that they'll shoot as good as my own cast bullets. And a lot less effort on my part to make em. I still cast my 45/70 stuff exclusively though for obvious reasons. All my smaller stuff (32, 38, 44 and 45's) I buy ready cast, I shoot too many to do my own casting for this.
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Old 06-17-2011, 04:51 AM
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Well Like I first posted; I have not yet shot hard cast bullets and before I will; I had researched the shooting forums on the internet. The experts who post here and other forums are the ones who have written their learned opinions and are what I have repeated. The vast majority of these scribes have hundreds and hundreds of posts on the various shooting forums and as a Newbie to cast I will surely defer to their vast experience as to what works the best. The opinions I have written are not my own but of these senior members; and are on public record for anyone who searches the many shooting forums.
Here is a question I'll put out there: WHICH HARD CAST BULLET MANUFACTURER MAKES A BULLET FOR 45 COLT ; WHICH WEIGHS 250 - 270 GR. NOT BEVEL BASE; RNFP- for no feeding problems; .454 DIAMETER; HARD ENOUGH TO WITHSTAND 1600 FPS ; AND, AND -- priced less than XTP'S?? For if the economy of cast is not there; what's the point of cast? As the economics of shooting cast is always front and centre as one of its main attributes. UNLESS YOU CAST YOURSELF.
Which makes this discussion moot
Sincerely
Doc.
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  #17  
Old 06-17-2011, 06:47 AM
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Well I don't shoot cast bullets for economy. I shoot them for performance.

With handguns, you'll get vastly better wounding with very consistent penetration. To me that is the great advantage over jacketed.
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  #18  
Old 06-17-2011, 10:23 AM
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Yes but I'm not talking about handguns sir; All along I've been posting on 45 colt in a rifle and not squib CAS loads.
Regards
Doc
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:11 PM
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Right. And the problem gets worse with rifle-speed loads. Hollowpoints will probably expand to the point of fragmenting or becoming extremely destructive. In handguns they may or may not expand at all. You will generally pickup about 300 or so FPS (sometimes more) when using full power handgun loads in a rifle barrel.

So, whether it's a rifle or a pistol or a rifle or pistol cartridge, you still get very consistent terminal performance. Of much less concern if you are just shooting paper, of course. But with hunting, it's good to know what will happen when you pull the trigger.....

Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
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  #20  
Old 06-17-2011, 05:30 PM
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It makes sense as you say dependent upon your target, But as the majority of game here in North America is relatively thin skinned and by doing my part in placing my shots to avoid targeting hip ,thigh shoulder bones I feel very confident in bullets like the XTP. As primarily a hunter I feel the bullet must match the game but I don't feel the animals have gotten any tougher. In fact with all the so called trophy hunters out there hunting horns and skulls I am of the opinion that as the gene pool is weakened we are hunting down.
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Doc
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