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slinging a '92

16K views 26 replies 7 participants last post by  outsidebear 
#1 · (Edited)
For years have wanted a Winchester Model 1894 Belgian Congo SRC, of which a batch of about 200 were made in 1913. Collectable n' usually pricey. So finally made my own version using an early Rossi Model '92 SRC. While visiting a friend's shop, was allowed the use of a milling machine, for inletting the wood. Mauser style butt swivels were used, modifying the front swivel by cutting off the rear screw hole/reshaping the metal. NOTE: the forearm wood is of two elevations: lower wood where the barrel band slides on; higher on the main forearm wood. When cutting/shaping the rear of the butt swivel, metal up close to the loop ring will be the same elevation as the main forearm wood - meaning it will be level with the wood surface. The factory front metal (with screw hole that goes underneath the barrel band) will be the same level as the front forearm wood. All comes out with a clean installation.

Why go to the trouble? For the comfort of carrying the carbine over the left shoulder, barrel down (some call this the African carry). The carbine lays flat against the left side of your back (when slung over the left shoulder, for a right hand shooter), or will lay flat across you back if you choose to go galloping across the plains with is slung angled across you back, or carried in this position when riding a 4-wheeler (they eat less hay) or a snow machine in winter.

With the carbine slung over your left should, barrel down, your left hand naturally comes to rest holding the forearm tip/magazine-barrel area. When you want to take a shot, merely bring your left hand up n' outwards while twisting the carbine, and you'll find this places the carbine to your right hand and seems to jump right onto your right shoulder. You really need to experience this method to truly appreciate how handy n' comfortable it is. Over 8 million Mauser rifles had a reason for slinging a rifle this way, ya think?

Since having mounted the side sling on this .357 SRC have duplicated the mounting on a Rossi .45 Colt SRC; one Model 1894 .38-55 (someone's re-bore from a Post-64 Model 94 .30-30 - cant' hurt any collectable status on that one!!); and two Ruger #3 carbines (folks in the Forum here may recall I've a few #3's, and a few extra sets of wood stocks). On the Ruger #3 forearm attachment, no wood was inlet or cut, I modified a Ruger 10/22 side sling barrel band mount. That's for another Forum post, or if you really want to know, message me, k'.

Hope you enjoy this post, it's been a fun and most rewarding experience.
best of regards to all, outsidebear
 
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#4 ·
With the normally found sporting rifle sling swivel installation (on the bottom of the butt stock in from of the toe of the stock; on the bottom of the forearm), then slinging the carbine over your shoulder: you have the narrow bottom part of the carbine riding against your shoulder/back area, with the carbine tending to wobble/move side-to-side, move around/flop some, depending on what your activity is. I've carried carbines/rifles this way and it's not all that comfortable for long hauls or all day. The long gun tends to slip around/forward/against your leg, etc.

Whereas (to me anyway) the side mounted sling setup lets the flat of the carbine: ride/rest against the back of your shoulder/back. Which means less pressure, as well as it helps-itself-remain in position/place (being kinda nestled into that hollow of the left shoulder blade area - remember I said kinda), and not flop/move around nearly as much.

As have mentioned in my first post, unless you experience this method of carrying, it's not as easily understood/felt - and saying this with no disrespect to other readers here either, k'... It really is a comfortable all day long carry method.
 
#5 ·
hmmmm......I like it.....

I hate the idea of slinging a '94. The few times I've needed to do so (i.e., dragging a critter), I had a loop-type shotgun sling as a temporary fix.

But this looks.....and I'll take your word that it works....like a semi-elegant solution.
 
#7 ·
A friend n' I have been kicking 'round options to having a side mounted sling swivel setup, yet simpler to install and a bit more user friendly. The below is an idea we're working on. What ya think?
Butt Stock:
Drill one hole, then glue in the base of the flush mounted swivel into the left side of the butt stock. NOT recommended for a collector grade carbine - but a clunker n' hard used field iron, why not?
It leaves a clean/snag free surface when the sling is removed. Uncle Mike's has these, maybe others?
The only downside that I can see, is when the sling is removed, there's that 'hole' in the left side of the
butt stock - reminiscent of someone having put a small compass in their rifle stock! ugh Otherwise it's fine.



Push Button Detachable Swivels http://www.unclemikes.com/accessories/standard-swivels/push-button-detachable-swivels

Barrel band:
Use the threaded-all-the-way-up machine thread swivel stud, as shown in the middle of the picture below. Then drill/tap the side of the barrel band on a carbine (can peen the inside end of the threaded stud shaft for an even more secure mounting). Threaded/screwed (peened) would be quite sufficient for holding power.



QD Super Swivels for Most Pumps and Autos http://www.unclemikes.com/accessories/shotgun-swivels/magnum-qd-super-swivel
This type of setup should work just fine and be even handier than the Belgian Congo copy setup. Though I prefer the nostalgic looks of the Belgian Congo copies I've done so far. It's got a bit more nostalgic 'class'...

Whereas this setup is simple, clean and you can easily remove the sling when not wanting to use it. I'll of course 'need to' obtain another Rossi carbine (or two !) in order to do this type of setup. For simplicity of installation n' function, this setup should do fine. So far this is in the 'design' stages, but I'm really liking the idea. If at first you're not sure, get a 2x4 board, well used .22 or some other iron and give it try there first to see if you'd like it.

Have fun . . .
 
#8 ·
Hope I'm not belaboring this topic too much here, but . . .

Instead of using a threaded stud on the side of the barrel band, which leaves a stud sticking out, can also use a 'full band lever action' swivel base Uncle Mike's - The Leader in Shooting Accessories. Would need to file down the side of the ring (so it's same thickness/shape as the top depression) to allow clearance for the barrel. This allowing the sling swivel stud to stick out to the side.

By using the 'full band lever action' swivel base, this would keep the sling swivel stud from sticking out as far as if using a threaded stud mounted to the barrel band. Either way will work, but the 'full band lever action' stud will not stick out as much. If using a saddle scabbard or other scabbard to carry your carbine in, this might be a desirable consideration?

My nest Rossi carbine will have:
1. flush mounted swivel in the left side of the butt stock
2. full band lever action swivel base
3. 1" sling

Now gotta go hunt up 'nother carbine...!
 
#10 ·
Drilling/installing a flush mounted swivel base next to the barrel band (on the action side of the barrel band), would this work? Good question. Don't know? That area of wood is, I'd say, of medium strength and may/may not, hold and not crack? You might want to consider how much strain might be placed against it someday?

In looking at the Rossi '92 I have with me (see picture in first post), there might be enough wood? I don't have a flush swivel base to measure how deep it needs to go into the wood? Is the flush base long enough that it will hit the magazine tube/barrel, before it bottoms out? Not much depth of wood in that area of the forearm. I've ordered a couple sets of the flush mount, I should have them in the middle of next week, then can measure their length/depth to drill, and get a better idea. Be nice if it'd work. I'll Post when get that checked out the end of next week.

I realize most folks aren't going to be using their sling from a tree branch to swing across a gully, or repel down a cliff with. Each piece of forearm wood probably needs to be evaluated for its own individual grain pattern for strength. Being able to use a flush mount base just behind the barrel band would be an even cleaner installation.

The 2/3rds around loop barrel band you mention: by filing the side of it down to allow the stud to stick out to the side, would leave a weakened (IMHO) tip area between where you'd file it down on the side and the tip. Whereas if using the full band it would have greater strength. Even though you file the notch on the side the same way, you'd still have a full loop metal band (not a 2/3rds metal band) http://www.unclemikes.com/accessories/rifle-swivels/lever-action-full-band. I'd say the full band will provide a more solid installation/strength. Both could be placed most anywhere on the magazine tube and would take up the same space. They're the same concept, just that the full band would be stronger . . . seems to me anyway. Now if you're wanting to use the 2/3rds loop swivel band and have the stud on the bottom of the magazine tube, then that'd work fine. If wanting the swivel stud on the side of the carbine, then were it me, I'd go with the full loop band.

In the cobwebs of my mind I remembered Pachmayr use to offer a flush mount type of sling swivel. In looking, they still do!!
http://www.pachmayr.com/home/flush-mount-swivel.php I've ordered a set of these today. This type of setup might work good on the forearm (and if there, why not the butt wood)? Will scout 'em out when they arrive. I need to see the sling loop metal 'T' post, I'm leery of these being a potential weak spot? Won't know 'til have 'me in hand. Adequate time to scout out various options n' share ideas.

A consideration: will the sling be used occasionally; most of the time; or left on full time? With the Belgian Congo military sling swivel installations I've done on a few carbines, the sling will be left on full time. Upcoming carbines, will most likely have a quick detachable sling setup. You'll need to decide how you might want a sling on your carbine?

I appreciate the input n' think tanking, such doings help everyone out in the long run . . . a factor I like about the fraternity in this Forum.
 
#11 ·
Update:
Pachmayr flush mount swivel base is 1/2" deep/tall.
http://www.pachmayr.com/home/flush-mount-swivel.php
Uncle Mike's flush mount swivel base is 1/2" deep/tall.
http://www.unclemikes.com/accessories/standard-swivels/push-button-detachable-swivels
There is not enough wood on side of the forearm, directly behind the barrel band on the Rossi carbines, to allow inserting either of these at that location.

Either of the above will work with the butt stock installation, but not in the forearm wood. This should answer that question for the group of probably 2 people out there who might have an interest in this setup! :rolleyes:

For a side mounted sling swivel installation for the front swivel base, the Uncle Mike's lever action full band (then filing down a depression on the side, just like on the top) will work the easiest.
Uncle Mike's - The Leader in Shooting Accessories


So now we'll lay this poor old dead horse Post to rest...
 
#13 · (Edited)
I like how you did the Belgian Congo style swivels, looks great! I saw one at a show a few years ago.

I put my swivels in the bottom, I rarely carry the gun slung unless I have to, I prefer to carry it in hand. It makes sense what you said about carrying it slung from the side, I just rarely carry them that way, so it hasnt been an issue for me.

I used to drill and tap the band for the front stud, I didn't care for the magazine band mounts, they just didnt look in character or period correct for classic lever guns. I was a bit leary of the holding power of only 1 1/2 or 2 threads holding the stud in the band, but didnt try anything else until installing a stud on a Browning 92. They have aluminum bands, so I didnt trust threading directly into the band. I drilled the band, and went into the wood to index the next step to the hole in the band. I then ran a knurled nut onto the stud screw, scribed around it, and dremelled out the wood to snugly inlet the nut into the wood under the band. I also filed a flat on the band where the stud seats, and contoured the face of the nut to get good even contact with the inside of the band. It worked great, and the nut can be pulled out and rotated to index the stud where you want when its torqued snugly. I think its pretty bomb proof, you may in fact be able to swing across creeks and other obstacles from your sling and not pull the front stud out.

I also stumbled onto the older Williams studs, they are rounded and contoured nicely, they look classier than the Uncle Mikes studs. I've rounded up as many of the Williams type as I can, and have modified some non-detachable swivels that had the rounded ball contour and made more quick detach type studs from them.

PS, I see you have excellent taste in slings. :D I search used leather boxes at gun shops, shows and pawn shops and collect as many of they type sling as I can find.

Installed on a pre-64 94 carbine,







 
#15 ·
What loads are you using in your 38-55? I have a couple project guns, one may become a shorty, perhaps a 17 or 18" gun. The other is a short rifle on an early receiver. I had the barrel made from a 375 H&H barrel, so it has the smaller groove diameter and should be easier to find bullets that fit correctly.

I'm starting to load a few of the 250 gr/1800 fps loads from the old Lyman manuals. I have some Barnes Originals, and some cast. Also have a 149 gr Lyman mould for small game loads. Some have fooled with the near 300 gr bullets in 38-55, they may warrant further research. Should be good penetrators. I think they can be run in the 1600fps or so range. I'd like to see more info about them, though the 250s run at 1800 seem to shoot through largish animals (moose), according to those that have hunted them.

The bigger guns get heavy dragging them around in the mountains. I'm thinking about something lighter that can shoot holes through the larger varmints. Love the 86 carbine and the 71, they sure seem heavy for long walks though.
 
#17 ·
I've seen the 86 XL's, I like them, but not as much as the carbine. I cut the carbine down to 20", installed a sling and Lyman no 56 sight. I have a sourdough to work down into a blade for it. I may drill the stock out a but to lighten it.

I have an 86 rifle also, I cut it down to 22" before I got the carbine, its pretty heavy with the octagon barrel. I'd like to rebarrel it with a 71 barrel and make it a 22" 348 short rifle. That should lighten it some. I have an 86 XL shotgun butt for it. Havent gotten it refinished and fitted up yet. I think it would be a good general purpose gun in 348, though still a bit heavy. Have a 71 also, it gets heavy dragging it around up around 9000 ft or so, but I like the range it has. Most of mine have Lyman 56's, sourdoughs and slings. All do well with extra light loads for small game grouse and pests. Round balls or collar buttons with very light charges are great for that.

I have some ideas for a general purpose bolt gun on a Ruger 77 tanger. Not a true scout, just shorter and more compact than the average hunting gun. It will probably become a switch barrel, and perhaps go up around 358 cal, with 308 and 260 for other barrels. Thats down the road a bit. It would be about 20", have good irons and 2-7 compact Leupold glass, and lightend a little in the stock.
 
#20 ·
Was tromping around in the woods today with a Browning 92. Nice and light to carry. All was well until I ran into a guy that told me about a rather large grizz that's been hanging around in the canyon right around where I've been walking lately. Think I'll stick with the 86 for a while.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the pictures. I was just talking to my smith about installing sling rings that would allow me to carry my carbine (16" Rossi 92 in .44 Mag) in front with a swivel on the top of the stock and another on the left side so that the rifle would be in the ready position while hog hunting in brush. We were uncertain how to attach the forward swivel and your pictures will help a lot.

BearBear
 
#25 ·
Thanks for all the advise. I think I will try a leather solution first. I'm pretty handy with leather working and have made a couple of pretty nice holsters. One from a Warthog. The top mount on the fore end would not work because it would interfere with the sight picture. It will have to be side mounted there. And with leather, I can change things pretty easilyt compared to the drilling I'd have.

BearBear
 
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