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  #1  
Old 04-16-2005, 02:57 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Angry TC Hawken


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Hello Again~

I was sitting here with my drinking horn thinking about my Father's old TC Hawken and how rusted the barrel is (He bought it in the 70's). I recall going to see the movie "Jeremiha Johnson"staring
Robert Redford with my Dad when I was a just a young buck by the way.
Anyway..."chug"... I was thinking
again that I might buy Dad a Green Mountain replacement barrel for that old rifle with a 1 in 28 twist
He has maxi balls in the closet and the percussion rifle sports a scope. "Double chug":...(ducking pistol fire, tomahawks and knives as I type this). Yikes!
Got no other ideas cause I've already bought every power tool Sears offers on Fathers Day. One of those newfangled Austin and Halleck
Mt. rifles is out of myt price range. I know little about Thompson Center firearms as I prefer firearm replicas from the mid to late 1700's.My question is this..... is this old TC Hawken worth the barrel upgrade? Most modern inlines are very the same and the advertising states they are forgiving as far as bullet weights and style. (1 in 28 twist 26 to 29 inch barrel). Also had a question about sight radius.
The reason explained in my reading for the evolution from the Germanic jaeger to the American transitional is the sight radius. Longer barrels have more accuracy (for roundballs)? That and The fact that lead was scarce and smaller calibers use less lead. Lead was was scarce.Its a contradiction that the Hawken evolved back to a shortened rifle with a larger bore. Sometimes I get confused but I'm tying to understand. When was the 1 in 48 inch rifle twist first popular?? Its pretty much the standard now in traditional guns.
I know that 1 in 32 to 36 twist is ideal for conicals but few rifles in mass production or any special barrels like the 1 in 28 inch twist mentioned earlier even exist. At least ive not found many. The Lyman GP hunter is one.The Pedersoli Pennsylvania/ Frontier "carbines".., which is another contradiction!..are others.


Horn empty.....

Puzzled Again.
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2005, 09:00 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jefferson Parish (via N.O.)
Posts: 9,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinter
Hello Again~

I was sitting here with my drinking horn thinking about my Father's old TC Hawken and how rusted the barrel is (He bought it in the 70's). I recall going to see the movie "Jeremiha Johnson"staring
Robert Redford with my Dad when I was a just a young buck by the way.
Anyway..."chug"... I was thinking
again that I might buy Dad a Green Mountain replacement barrel for that old rifle with a 1 in 28 twist
He has maxi balls in the closet and the percussion rifle sports a scope. "Double chug":...(ducking pistol fire, tomahawks and knives as I type this). Yikes!
Got no other ideas cause I've already bought every power tool Sears offers on Fathers Day. One of those newfangled Austin and Halleck
Mt. rifles is out of myt price range. I know little about Thompson Center firearms as I prefer firearm replicas from the mid to late 1700's.My question is this..... is this old TC Hawken worth the barrel upgrade? Most modern inlines are very the same and the advertising states they are forgiving as far as bullet weights and style. (1 in 28 twist 26 to 29 inch barrel). Also had a question about sight radius.
The reason explained in my reading for the evolution from the Germanic jaeger to the American transitional is the sight radius. Longer barrels have more accuracy (for roundballs)? That and The fact that lead was scarce and smaller calibers use less lead. Lead was was scarce.Its a contradiction that the Hawken evolved back to a shortened rifle with a larger bore. Sometimes I get confused but I'm tying to understand. When was the 1 in 48 inch rifle twist first popular?? Its pretty much the standard now in traditional guns.
I know that 1 in 32 to 36 twist is ideal for conicals but few rifles in mass production or any special barrels like the 1 in 28 inch twist mentioned earlier even exist. At least ive not found many. The Lyman GP hunter is one.The Pedersoli Pennsylvania/ Frontier "carbines".., which is another contradiction!..are others.


Horn empty.....

Puzzled Again.
Not too sure that anyone can proove longer barrels are more accurate...do offer a logner sight radius, and with open nsights, that often results in better accuracy...but it's not really a function of the barrel's rifling. While certainly not tradtional, a scope pretty much shows that there isn't a definitive barrel to accuracy equation (can consider a scope as having a sight radius of whatever the distance is to the target, regualdless of it being mounted on a 18" carbine or a 48" long rifle). Long barrel does give more velocity for a given charge, and that was inportant when powder was hard to come by.

Most of the real wester rifles (Hawkens included) aren't as short as the majority of today's repros...and usually not as ornate. Were most ofent simple solid guns...without "bling".

Lyman does offer the choice of twist, and they are massed produced, so at least some compaies have come to realize that there is no "universal twist".

Even round ball twist is caliber variable...takes more to spin a small ball tahn it does a large ball, but it's really hard to under-spin a round ball. That 1:48 is a pretty fair ball twsit for a .32, and a pretty good conical twist for a .58....but anywhere else, it's pretty much a compromise.

So go ahead and order a replacemtn barrel...the T/C is a solid gun and deserves to be shot.
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  #3  
Old 04-16-2005, 01:16 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Thanks for the insight

From what I see this is correct, barrel twist rate being caliber variable I mean. I noticed that Colraine barrels increase from a .54 cal 1 in 56 to a 58 cal. 1 in 66. I'd prefer 1 in 66 for the .50 ca.l but that's just me.
Again the knowledge compiled in these forums . i also noticed that ryal barrels are all 1 in 72 twist........the ones advertised for sale anyways reguardless of caliber. guess i was mistaken when i assumed that my 1 in 48 twist .36 frontier rifle was an incorrect twist rate.
A gertleeman mentioned a 1 in 96? rate of twist for .62 caliber.
i also understand that longer barrels are not always better. A .40 cal in 38inch length might be
better than say 42 inch. i guess i need charts dang it. But then again what looks good on paper isnt always best for hunting.... confused again...hehe
cant afford all them various trial bullets.That's why I asked.

thanks again for the input. just wanted dear old dad to down a big buck without having to use "kentucky windage". Aiming high I mean. You know i could buy a really nice modern firearm for the price of a custom made job. just dont like the looks of them. guess thats what it all boils down to.I'm now obsessed....but i'd still like to make a double jaeger that shoots .45 sabots...... Geesh! Near miss....sharp objects ,and arching projectiles fall at my feet.hahaha
saw a coyote at 25 yards on a sharp ledge while looking for arrowheads in the creeekbed yesterday.... Woulda been an excellent shot
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  #4  
Old 04-16-2005, 01:46 PM
Jack Monteith's Avatar
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 7,788
You should consider getting the new style lock for that old T/C. The cock is longer and doesn't chew up flints the way the old ones do. It's probably got the old case hardened frizzen that's just about chewed though to soft metal and won't spark proper-like too. Hint: T/C is very good about warrenty.

Bye
Jack
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2005, 10:09 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 60
I agree about T/C -- I'm a refugee from the White Mountain State me-self. I recommend sending the whole thing off to them for their recommendation, barrel et al. Main reason being, certain things they may take care of as a courtesy (warranty) and an aftermarket barrel may even void said warranty for future issues. As for your other questions, me-thinks ye may hath quaff too muche!!!

Every rifle regardless of length has a certain potential for accuracy, and shooting it will be the proof. I may not know that rifle per se, but I'm sure certain loads will do just fine on deer sized game. As for the length question, my 24" Gonic barrel shoots a cheap shot lead sabot as deadly as you can get at 100 yards. In other words: fix it, shoot it and ENJOY it... Black powder isn't rocket science, just find what works for you and stick with it!
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2005, 07:09 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 5
No truer words have been said.
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  #7  
Old 05-23-2005, 07:18 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDJ375
I recommend sending the whole thing off to them for their recommendation, barrel et al. Main reason being, certain things they may take care of as a courtesy (warranty) and an aftermarket barrel may even void said warranty for future issues.
FYI, a Green Mountain IBS drop in barrel will not void Thompson Centers warranty. I have five T/C Renegades and Hawkens rifles that have GM IBS barrels ranging from .40-.58 cal. The only modification I ever had to do to make a couple of the barrels fit was some minor filing on the rear of the barrel under rib so that it would clear the forearm of the stock and drop into place. I've never had to do any modification to the stock or lock itself. I have heard that some of the very first T/C rifle stocks might need to have the barrel channel of the stock deepened to allow the underlug to line up with the tenon plates in the stock, so the barrel key could be inserted. It is my understanding that if you do have one of these early stocks, GM will do the work and fit the barrel for a nominal charge and if required, this work does not void T/C's warranty either.

My barrels are all 32" slow twist barrels for shooting patched balls and I would highly recommend them. They are outstanging ball shooters and I prefer the extra length for aiming and the extra weight up front for off hand shooting. I would imagine that the quality and fit of the fast twist barrels is the same. FWIW, I think a .54cal roundball rifle is perfect for big game hunting and my GM barreled, .54 cal Renegade is capable of putting every ball into a 2" circle, at 50 yds, from cross sticks. Even better when I'm having a good day. A GM slow twist IBS barrel can be purchased for $160 and is well worth the money.
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