Well im in the process of buyin a new scope and want some opinions. The scope will be used for longrange hunting. The gun is a Savage model 11 270WSM. I have decided that I want a burris with ballistic plex reticle but to get the magnification and objective I want its gonna be out of my pricerange. So I checked out a Hawke brand that has a reticle very similar to the ballistic plex. I really like the Hawke but I have not heard of them before last week. So my first question is does anyone have a Hawke and would you recomend buyin one. Second question is about scope power. I will shoot anywhere from 50-500yds and am lookin at a 6-24x56. I have never had a scope bigger than 4-12x50. Question is: for huntin is the higher magnification and larger objective gonna be good or bad? I shoot well with an old Simmons Aetech 2.8-12x44 but I want some good optics that will let me reach out a little further. I really want to try this 6-24x56 but dont want to drop that kind of coin if it wont help. I need opinions from those of you who shoot well over 300yds.

welcome to the Shooters Forum Country835, I'm glad you decided to join us!

I'm probably not going to tell you want to hear. First off I've never heard of Hawke scopes so I can't offer an opinion on them. Guess i don't know what you are hunting so my answer may not be in line with your intentions. For hunting good glass trumps power everytime. I'd rather have bright clear glass especially for early morning, at dusk, and glass that isn't subject to glare if looking toward the sun. A 4-24X56 might be the ticket for long range varminting but it's way over the top for big game hunting, especially under 400 yards. Just my opinion here. At closer ranges (you mentioned 50 yards) even at 6 power all you'll see is hair and and be faced with almost certain fustration if taking a running shot. Savage's M11 long range hunting rifle is about 8 3/4 pounds without a sling , ammo and glass. By the time you add all that stuff you are going to be toting a bulky rifle with a heavy scope. Probably not my first choice if a lot of walking is called for.

If you offer up more information on how you hunt and what.... maybe someone here can give you a better answer to your questions.

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Save up the money you need and get the Burris It's a proven brand.I have 2 of their 3X9's with the Ballistic Plex reticle. You will be much happier.I think a 4X12 is high enough and more than is needed for big game.I have made shots over 400 yards with a 3X9 just fine.I agree with Monty on everything he said.I have scopes that go from 2X7 up to 4.5 X 15 and I don't ssee much need in anything higher on a big game rifle and would suggest a 3X9 or 2.5X10 as more practical.

Thanks guys. I hunt whitetail and hogs in Mississppi. Walkin with weight is no problem, im a cagefighter so im in great shape and I usually only walk less than a mile to my stand. I use my current scope on 6 almost all the time even in the woods, and dont really have any problems. I have killed deer from 20-350+yds with this scope on 6. My scope is real old and I just want a new one. I am a still hunter and I hunt big cutovers and fields, runnin shots are very seldom. When I do get a running shot its usually around 100yds and not a fast run. My current scope is a 12power and I have never shot it at a deer on 12, but I want to try some real long shots. I have lots of guns so this one will only be used when im huntin longrange situations.

Not my idea of a deer huntin' scope, but what the heck.

You might want to go to 'Optics Thoughts' website and read the reviews and recommendations. He's tested a few Hawkes, including the one it sounds like you're looking at.
And check the price on the Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 PA at CameraLandNY.

A 6x24 power scope would not be my first choice for general purpose hunting scope, but as long as your comfortable with it who cares, it's your rifle. As far as scopes goes you might want to look at the Pentax Gameseeker 30 scope, it's a 30mm tube for more light, precision plex recital, and side focus and comes in 6x24x50 and a 199.00 price tag. I've used many of their 4x12, and 4x16 Gameseeker scopes and am very happy with them. I'm think about putting one on my F Class rifle when it' gets built.

Here is the link.
Pentax - Camera Land NY

Some folks fall into the trap of thinking if they use a 9 power scope to shoot 2.5" groups at 200 yards that they will "need" an 18 power scope to shoot 5" groups at 400 yards. That is simply not true. Quality glass and good shooting form is what makes for accurate long-range shooting, not greater magnification. On a target rifle, or dedicated varmint rig, I might go as high as 16X, but for a big game rifle, you'll be sacrificing what you truly need for 95% of your shots, to get more ZOOM on the remaining 5%...and it's simply not needed.

The final decision is yours, of course, but anything more than maybe 12X is just not the best choice. There is a very good reason so many big game rifles carry a 3-9X40 scope...it's a great compromise of FOV at close range, with PLENTY of magnification for longer shots. Sometimes, more just isn't better.

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You want a rifle scope, not a microscope.

At the super high magnifications, you'll be lucky if you can find the target under many hunting situations due to the limited field of view. And remember, a scope does not correct bad form.

IMO, you should trade off magnification costs and put that money towards a well known, proven brand of scope. Burris makes a nice scope.

With respect to the Burris scope, I have not had great success with their Fullfield 3X-9 X40 scope's Ballistic plex graduated reticle. Off bags and zeroed at 100 yards, the scope shows hold over lines for 200, 300, and 400 yards, but I don't find them to be reliably calibrated, even following their directions to a tee. I do like the scope, it is clear and well made, so I just use the center cross hairs and dope my own hold over for long shots. My othe Burris has the Plex reticle, and I guess what I'm saying is the basic reticle is preferred.

Thanks guys. Yall are telling me what I need to know. Most of my huntin situations are gonna be in wide open terrain, so the idea of high magnification has me intriqued. I know I can make shots with a 12x so maybe I will try to find a 15 or 16 just to curb my curiousity. I really want the burris but I will check out the other suggestions first to be sure.

Which Burris are you looking at? FFII?

Yea what do you think of the fulfield II?

I have some experience with the Burris Fullfield II with the Ballistic Plex reticle. The two 3x9s I have are outstanding for any and all big game hunting. I put a 4x12 on a varmint rifle and like it for that, but the restricted field of view is not what I want for a big game rifle. I'd highly recommend the 3x9.

Additionally, if you're looking for a good deal on a new 3-9x40mm Burris Fullfield II Ballistic Plex, a buddy of mine and I bought 5 of them before Christmas from a dealer who was selling out. I needed two for a couple of rifles and he needed two. We just figured it would be worth buying the 5 that he had in stock as the price with shipping came to $176 each if we bought all 5. Neither of us has needed another thusfar, so you're welcome to it for $176 + whatever it costs to ship.

Where in MS are you? My place is just south of Gloster.

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Thanks CCA I will give it some thought and let you know. I live in Morton which is Scott county, about 30min east of Jackson. So a couple hours northeast of Gloster. By the way, just south of Gloster is Louisianna right? Ha

I can tell you I just picked up two Vortex's. The first is the Viper HS 4-16x44 and it is great. I have never hunted with anything over 9x, and only use 3x on my 3-9's in low light situations, but this one is on a varmint rifle - .223 Rem. If I ever go out west where the shots get longer, and I would have the time on a big critter to get a range and dial it in, this scope has the glass to see it. The other Vortex I got from CameraLandNY through GearHog (forum vendor) on closeout. It's the 4-12x40 with the V-brite (illum. dot) in the original Crossfire model for $79. It's going on my .22 WMR, replacing an old steel-tube Weaver 4x. As for quality, the Crossfire is about what you'd expect--construction wise--on a $79 scope. The glass is probably on par with a lot of $125-150 scopes out there that are selling on name alone.

The Viper glass is VERY good for the money, and I'd put it up against my Zeiss conquest in 3-9x40 any day. Now that the entry conquests have gone up to $499 from $399, the Viper was an absolute no-brainer for the same price and the 4-16x magnification, side focus, MOA BDC system, and re-settable knobs. Plus, it has marks for you to know what your MOA hashes mean at less than highest power clearly marked at 1x (16x), 2x (8x), 3x (5.8x), and 4x (4x), as the reticle is second focal plane, and does not change size with changes in magnification. Pretty handy if you don't have time to mess with the knobs and want to get a quick idea of holdover or wind for a long shot. Hope this helps.

Deck

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Eabco sells the Hawke and has a pretty good write up on them
Go to www.eabco.com. They'll tell you how "great they are"

They also sell the Swift which is my personel favorite in the low end market.
Good Luck

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I shoot squirrels. almost everyday if I can. My longest shot is 303 yards with my .223 but I have hit targets at 500. I'll tell you this. I had a 6-24 tasco, 4-16 Nc star and now a 4-16 vortex viper pst. I have never shot at a squirrel at 16 power. usualy around 10 or 12 power. even super long 500 yard shots at squirrels have not been at 16. Quality makes all the difference in the world.

Seems to me, the only advantage of having higher power is to be able to zoom in on something that your not sure is a target, i.e. picking an antler out of some brush. But be warned, you can see that antler better with high quality glass on 16x then lower quality at 24x or 40x for that matter. When I bought my last scope i wanted a 24x but went to a 16 because quality at 24 was out of my price range. read my post in the " what do we think of nightforce" thread if you want to know some info on my vortex. Good luck

Varminter: I read your other post. So you are saying that the cheap vortex is actually high quality glass?

I wish $900 was cheap to me: Vortex 4-16x50 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope. I have the Viper HS, like I said before, and the glass is VERY good. Another Vortex experience happened recently to me and my dad. He wanted to check out some new binocs, so we looked at cabelas. We checked out the viper HD, the swaros, the zeiss, nikons, and the Leupolds. The vortex and swarovskis were the absolute best, and neither of us could tell much difference. Plus, the vortex's were more compact and lighter, where both were in 8x42. Not exactly apples to apples, but your question was about the glass, and the vortex glass at viper level and up is great to my eyes. I bet the Razor HD is that much better, but I don't have first hand knowledge, so I can't comment. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide.

Deck

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Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement.
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DCAMM94 has it right. vortex viper pst 30mm x 50 first focal plane sells for $900. I was lucky enough to find one on eBay for $800 plus $20 in shipping. never been mounted. jumped on that quick.

The point I was trying to make was the price is smoking for the quality of glass. You cannot find anything comparable under the 1000 dollar range! And most are quite a bit more then that.

I am certainly not saying you have to spend that much money for quality glass. You can get the same scope in the second focal plane for $699 I think. Also the pst is designed for target and varmint/competition work. It has alot of extras that I really want and need in a scope. All of the scopes in the viper seires has the same glass. The pst (precision target) just has extras that I want. So they are a company that is at least worth looking into.

It seems to be that all of their scopes have the best glass in class. good luck.

DCAMM94 The razor is crazy man. Sure would like to look through one. They have 35mm tubes though. Might be a mounting issue.. ???

If your wanting to go with a BDC reticule think hard about your max power, because they are calibrated for max power. The ranges for your other aim points will change when u use different powers. So if your walking around with it on 6x keep in mind your BDC will be off. Unless you want to carry a range card for each and every power then you'll be using your BDC reticule on the highest power.

That being said my deer, antelope/varmint gun wears a 6x24 50mm If it was strictly deer antelope than it'd be between 14x to 16x max 40mm to 44mm.

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