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  #1  
Old 05-02-2004, 05:58 AM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Tikka T3 vs Remington 700 ADL


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I am about to buy a new .223 with standard weight barrel. The most important consideration is accuracy. The two rifles I've narrowed it down to are the Tikka T3 Stainless Lite and the Remington 700 ADL. I would like a 700 BDL, but the stocks are way to glossy for me. The tikka seems like nice rifle, although the plastic part are a turn-off (except for the stock!). I've always been keen on Remington 700's, but I never realised that ADLs don't have a floorplate - is this a real disadvantage? Another question about the Rem is that matt black finish they use on the metal - does this wear off easily?

The only other rifles that I have considered are:
- Ruger 77 (heard about barrels being made in Mexico, plus the triggers can't be adjusted).
- CZ (lousy finish and not very smooth action).
- Browning A-Bolt (nice but pricey).
- Sako (**** nice but pricey).
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2004, 06:43 AM
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Put my vote in for the Tikka----Remington's are not good---I'll leave it at that.
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  #3  
Old 05-02-2004, 09:21 AM
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I've never owned a Tikka, but have heard they're great rifles. I have a 700 in BDL, and I'm quite happy with it. I personally don't like the lack of a floorplate, for 2 reasons: You have to work the bolt to remove loaded rounds (a safety issue for me, which may be unfounded), and easier cleaning with a floorplate. I don't like plastic on a rifle either, guess I'm old-fashioned.
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  #4  
Old 05-02-2004, 10:05 AM
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Tikka all the way. I've never heard of anyone having any problem with any of the plastic parts on a tikka. I've read peopla saying they hate plastic but none ever have an actual problem with it. I kinda like the idea of no bluing to wear off on the floor plate and no rust in the clip. As for accuracy you get a sako quality barrel and a sako quality adjustable trigger.
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  #5  
Old 05-02-2004, 05:50 PM
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Tikka T3 vs. Rem. 700 ADL

I am always surprised by the people who will flatly say that "such and such brand is total junk".... interestingly enough, these same people usually have a "pet" brand that can do no wrong. Sort of like the Ford people vs. the Chevy people in Nascar racing.... I often wonder if these same people have ever owned (or even used extensively enough to have a qualified opinion) - the particular brand or model that they condemn so
absolutely. I cannot prove it, but I suspect that those who express such ab-
solute opinions.... very often flying in the face of other's experience... often
don't know what they are talking about.
Having said that, I will say that I have two Rem. 700 ADL's... both in
.308 and both with the synthetic stock. They are both excellent rifles.... very accurate (5/8" to 3/4" groups @ 100 yds with factory ammo- when I am shooting well)... and both trouble free. Both have the black phosphate finish - which I have found to be just as tough as bluing - after extensive field use. The adjustable triggers, in my opinion, are the best of any of the
"out-of-the-box" rifles. The lack of a floorplate I do not find to be any disadvantage. In fact, I believe (and this is backed up by many years of experience) that, for a standard, "out-of the box" rifle, the ADL's are usually the most accurate of the lot.... as the stock is stiffer in the bedding area (without the big hole in the bottom). As to the unloading issue, that, of course is a matter of personal preference. I usually "unload" my rifles
downrange (by shooting them empty)...so, it doesn't bother me at all... and I believe that there is LESS dirt build-up in the magazine area... (than with rifles with floorplates)...as it is more difficult for dirt to get in, in the first place. Cleaning, of course, IS more difficult. I shoot A LOT though, so, I make it a practice to pull the barreled action out of the stock, for cleaning, about 2 - 3 times a year. Re-zeroing is not a big issue for me, as often as I shoot.
Now, let me say also, that I am NOT trying to sell you on the 700.
I do not work for Remington, by the way. I have the most experience with
the Rems, so I can relate these things from direct experience. I do not own a Tikka (though I have looked at them a good bit.... while considering purchasing one). I have heard nothing but praise for them. My impression from handling several, is that they are well-made. As well, they are actually made by Sako (Tikka is the "cheaper" line in the Sako family) - but they share the same barrels as the Sakos. Sakos have a VERY good reputation.
I do not believe that you would go wrong with the Tikka (though I cannot
vouch for them from personal experience). I CAN say from personal experience, that you will not go wrong with the 700 ADL.
I have some limited experience with the Ruger. The action is well-made... and smooth. The barrels are quite alright. The triggers are often
a bit rough.... and as they cannot be adjusted.... I find that a disadvantage. Further, the synthetic - stocked Ruger (that I used to own)
had a very cheap stock (no fibre reinforcement). The forend always touched the barrel on one side... and in fact, one could bend the forend
away from the barrel with hand pressure about 1/4" !! I could never get
my Ruger to shoot well (consistently). With an aftermarket trigger and
stock.... I think that it probably would have been a fine rifle.
The Browning A-bolt.... you said it. Nice... very well made... but often,
a bit pricey. I have owned one... and it was very good.
I do not have any experience with the CZ.
In summary, I would say that you should try EACH of your choices as
much as possible.... (even if only handling them in the store)... and see which will fit you... and feel the best to YOU. I would not purchase the Ruger
(as I wouldn't want to have to immediately re-stock it and change the trigger).... but, between the Rem. and the Tikka.... I do NOT think that you
could make a bad choice.... as long as the rifle feels good to you.
I hope that this will help you. Best of Luck.
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  #6  
Old 05-02-2004, 06:46 PM
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I bought a Tikka T3 Lite and am very happy with it and shoots a tight group i wouldnt hesitate buying another tikka in the future.
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  #7  
Old 05-03-2004, 02:02 AM
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I'm not going to try to argue the merits of one rifle or another, but anywhere you look the general consensus for accurate, long range shooting will be the remington 700 in one variant or another. That said, decide for yourself.

If the most important consideration is accuracy I'd say go for the 700 VS. A bit more money (list is ~$800 USD, I've been quoted ~$675ish in Oregon), but essentially it is a 700 SWS (Sniper Weapon System) without the scope, sling and bipod. Costs a _lot_ less than the SWS too.
Comes with a heavier, free floated barrel than the ADL.

700VS
http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700VS.HTM

700 SWS aka the M24 aka the 700 PSS
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifle/m24.htm
Hmm, it seems the've added the .300 Remington Mag cartridge for their "cheaper" series.
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifle/700p.htm

Of course, the ADL will run you a lot less than $800 - or even $675, but if you're going to free float and change the barrel for accuracy, you might be just better off getting the VS.

Oh. All the high end 700s have internal magazines, probably for the very reason that someone stated earlier, stiffness and accuracy.

BTW, the police version also comes in .300 Win Mag.
THe M24 is the more or less the standard sniper rifle for the USMC + US Army although it seems the Navy SEALS like the the .308, although that must be fairly customized.

For a somewhat comparable "sold to civilians" rifle, you probably have to look to the Sendero series, which will start at $1000 and is basically a VS in long action, although I'm sure there is some justification for the extra $400. I've never seen these go for below factory sticker price btw.

Does anyone know what a M24 would cost?
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2004, 02:04 AM
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oh yeah, I don't work for Remington.
Or for anyone else right now. . . 3 cheers for India.
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2004, 02:54 AM
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Thanks for the replies folks, especially holepuncher - that was a good breakdown on all makes that I mentioned. It seems like Tikka is the way to go. The main advantages are the Sako connection and the lighter weight. Plastic should have it's advantages, like no rust and less weight. Most military smallarms are full of plastic nowdays. Also, stainless should be better than normal steel. The main reason I like Rems is the look and the action, although the ADLs I looked at had a rough bolt movement compared with the smooth tikka. I have owned a Rem before, but it was a 788 in .222 & althought it was accurate it was badly designed. I like the idea of a detachable mag compared with working the bolt, especially when jumping back into the truck.

Anyway, I'll keep you updated.
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  #10  
Old 05-03-2004, 03:18 AM
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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Thx loraksus. I thought the blind magazine was a cost cutting measure so it interesting that they use it on higher end rifles. Less weight is a really important consideration as I will be walking over hilly country and this is only a 223, so don't care about the recoil. I like the look of some of those rems, but here in Australia the cost starts to get high for some of those models, although the exchange rate is much better nowdays! An all black ADL is A$1,000. Also, not all of those models are available in 223. I want a rifle that will handle everything from taking rabbits at 300 meters to goats at 100 meters, maybe even wild pigs (make sure the shot is in the right place, otherwise run for your life). At the same time I don't want a heavy barrel. Sub MOA should hit a rabbit at 300 meters.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2004, 04:35 AM
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Tht Tikka is a nice looker for the money and will probably be as accurate as anything else out there on average. I'm not sure what "good" refers to in regards to a rifle (?) Listens when spoken to (?) Doesn't run with scissors(?) In any matter I have accumulated three dozen or so Remingtons made between 1950 to the present and they have all been "good" , some I would even say very "good" those ones get to stay up past their bedtimes.


444fitch
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2004, 04:45 AM
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By the way , to the fella concerned about unloading a floorplateless bolt gun, after you have open the bolt on the chambered round and it ejects , push the bolt forward just enough that the cartridges in the magazine clear the magazine rails and pull the bolt back until they tinkle onto the ground one by one or hand pick them from the action . You don't have to chamber each round completely and slam the bolt shut on each round, and it beats them being flung a few feet away from you when it comes time to gather them up.


444fitch
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