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  #1  
Old 11-09-2004, 09:42 AM
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one rifle-.270, .30-06, 0r .308


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I need some advice. If someone wanted one rifle for everything-long range sniping, deer, coyote, bear, elk, moose, a few targets here and there, what would it be? I like the 06 because it's time tested, but so is the .308-both have served as US military rounds. The .270 i've heard is very flat shooting. what would you pick for woods deer, and also being able to confidently take a shot at 500 yard-just for the heck of it? Any opinions, I appreicate.
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2004, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dairyman
I need some advice. If someone wanted one rifle for everything-long range sniping, deer, coyote, bear, elk, moose, a few targets here and there, what would it be? I like the 06 because it's time tested, but so is the .308-both have served as US military rounds. The .270 i've heard is very flat shooting. what would you pick for woods deer, and also being able to confidently take a shot at 500 yard-just for the heck of it? Any opinions, I appreicate.
Thanks
I'd choose the .270, only because you mention long range shooting a couple of times. The .270 with the right bullets will be Adequate for bear, elk, and moose, but just Adequate. The 30-06 is a better choice for the larger game, but the .270 shoots a good bit flatter. If you are serious about shooting past 300yds, get the .270. If realisticly you will be staying under 300yds get the '06 and never look back.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2004, 10:43 AM
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Dairy,

Matt's advice is well heeded. I happen to own and shoot all three, and have found the 270 to excel in long range situations, although I will admit that I would be very hesitant to shoot one past 400 yards. Every 270 that I have owned has been surprisingly accurate.

The 308 mirrors its performance close in on the big stuff, but its real advantage is that it excels in handy, lightwieght rifles.

The 06 outshines either in that it can use super heavy 30 caliber bullets, that are decisive if you decide to go towards elk, moose, or bear. I am very partial to the 220 Nosler, and it can be pushed faster than one would think.

The 06 with a 150 grain boattail that it likes will also be effective close to 400 yards, provided that you practice and know where its striking at all of the ranges in between.

I guess the real question you want to ask yourself is how commited you are to 500 yards, and if the answer is very commited, then its a 270. If you can live with a bona fide 400 yard rifle, I think the 06 would be a better choice.

I am confident that you will be happy with either one of these that you end up with, all are strong candidates for the "do it all".

Good luck to you friend,

Steve
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Old 11-09-2004, 10:50 AM
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Dairyman

This one gun thing has been bantered around and beat to death for ever. To be frank I don't feel one gun for everything is really a good idea. Moose and Alaska/Canadian big bears require a larger (more humane) rifle than the three you mentioned given the fact your throwing in long range shooting.

I shoot varmits to elk, moose and bears and have several different rifles for those specific hunting experiences. I use fast small bore high velocity rifles for varmits i.e. 20, 224 and 243 calibres, Medium bore's, i.e. 7mm, 30 and 8mm's for big game.

The best recommendation I could give you for a one gun shooter would be to shoot one of the 30 calibre magnums with a good recoil pad such as the limbsaver and have it ported if you are recoil sensitive. My suggestion would then be to reload for the game and velocity you wanted. This would allow you to load bullet weights specific for the game and ranges you want to shoot

You can duplicate any of the cartridges velocity and trejectory you talked about with that one gun and still have the advantage of high velocity and flat trejectory the magnum affords with attendent energy that velocity gives you. Remember you can always load down, but loading up a 308 to kill a moose at 500 yards is a lot harder.

Well you should get some interesting answers to this question, but remember the idea is to kill game in a humane fashion. any of the guns you mentioned will do that out to 300 yards and even beyond. To be frank in 45 years of hunting I've only shot animals past three hundred yards twice. I know it sounds great to talk about those long shots and killing game that far away, but in reality it does not happen all that often.

I shoot these rifles
Ruger .204
22-250
243 Winchester
280 Remington
308 Winchester
8mm Remington Mag
44 Remington Mag

I also put a brick or two of 22 long rifle a month thru the CZ bolt rifle and 22 pistols I shoot. I think shooting a small bore rifle with the same action as your big game rifle from field positions makes you a better game shot.

Good luck in your quest and always remember you can never own enough guns.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2004, 01:19 PM
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I don't believe there is such a thing as "500 yards just for the heck of it". That's a long way, especially when conditions aren't perfect like pretty much all hunting situations. I own a 270 and a 308, and I have never shot the 270 past about 250 yards. The 308 is sighted in at 100 because it is my woods gun.

For an "all-around gun", the ones you mentioned are great, but I wouldn't call any of them a 500 yard gun unless they were in the hands of someone who knew exactly what they were doing with them. That goes for any cartridge, not just the ones you mentioned. No, I wouldn't want to be standing 500 yards away with you shooting at me with them, but the chance of wounding game is much higher with the increased distance.

Assuming that the shooter would learn their limitations, all of the above would be sufficient, although a 500 yard shot at a Moose with a 130 gr 270 bullet would be very foolish and disrespectful to the animal.

For a similar trajectory to the 270 with slightly heavier bullets, don't forget the 7mm Rem Mag. I'm surprised no one else mentioned it yet. Although, I have never personally shot one, I know they have a pretty large following.

amndouglas
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  #6  
Old 11-09-2004, 02:08 PM
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If your looking for one rifle to cover a wide range of possible hunting situations, the 30-06 seems to fill the ticket. The 30-06 is not perfect for all situations, but it has a wide range of bullet weights & load characteristics which makes it the most versatile choice. Ammo is available almost everywhere, and it is relatively inexpensive. I have owned and used all three; go with the 30-06.
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2004, 04:00 PM
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Only one fly rod!

dairyman,

Oh my, living here in the pacific northwest thats like asking me to use just one flyrod, I'd have to pick an eight weight.

Using just one rifle will be a compromise at best and with your rules, the 30-06 would be my choice. In factory loads more bullet weight are available, but remember only one rifle. It has only one barrel and twist rate so it will only stabilize one bullet weight well. The 110 grain pills will not do well at long range, compared to a 22 or 25 caliber varmit rifle. In the same breath, the -06 can throw 220 gr. pills for some of the bigger beast, but much better calibers are made. In any event the 30-06 works at lower pressures and would get the job done. It would be up to the shooter to pick the bullet and stick to a distance where to bullet works.

The 270 Winchester is a great round and seems to shoot well out of most rifles and is easy to reload. It will not throw the heavy bullets like the -06.

The 308 is a shorter round, some say the reduced length helps in the accuracy department, but has to work at higher pressures to match the 30-06. Past 180 grain bullet weights the -06 leaves the 308 in the dust.

Buy a couple guns, help the economy!

Hoopie,
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2004, 05:30 PM
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30-06.

BTW, take a look at the 30-06 and 270 at 400 yards. The 30-06 drop is not much greater. The drop at 400 yards should not be the deciding factor.

Geoff
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2004, 06:22 PM
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hmmmm I got a 270, it shoots flat and kills well. Mostly I zero for 200 yards, 500 yards is a bit much. Think of what you want to shoot, deer or less the 270 rocks. Heavier animals like western bear or elk and you might want an 06. truthfully, 270 out of the box will shoot a bit better. 308 has lots of good cheap ammo and will not handle bullets over 180 grains. 30-006 is an old standard, very pickup truck like, it will do it all but not get you heated.

truthfully, just went thru this in my quest for a nice pre 64 m70 for hunting gun, got a 1948 270, am thinking of selling off several to buy 270 ammo now.

Last edited by DocWills; 11-09-2004 at 06:25 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2004, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM42
30-06.

BTW, take a look at the 30-06 and 270 at 400 yards. The 30-06 drop is not much greater. The drop at 400 yards should not be the deciding factor.

Geoff
Well, Geoff beat me to it.

It is a common misconception that the .270 is significantly flatter than the .30-06. The difference is minimal and can basically be disregarded.

People often envision a rainbow trajectory for the .30-06 and a laser line for the .270. It just ain't so. They are both plenty flat.

RSY
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  #11  
Old 11-10-2004, 05:50 AM
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How about the 280 Remington?
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2004, 08:11 AM
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thanks for the advice

to everybody that put in their two cents about what caliber to get, thanks a bunch. I think I'll go with a 270, now, and have a 30.06 by next year.


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  #13  
Old 11-10-2004, 08:14 AM
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I heard the .338winmag complements the .270win pretty well
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2004, 08:35 AM
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WV Hoopie you say (but remember only one rifle. It has only one barrel and twist rate so it will only stabilize one bullet weight well.) I'm sorry but you may have been mis informed just because a rifle has a certan twist rate does not mean it will only stabalize one weight bullet! a 1-10 is prett standard on the avarage hunting rifle ...out of the 3 carts listed in this post you start to have problems with the heavier you go so say a 1-10 twist you may start to have problem with say a 190-200 grain pill but anything all the way down to a 110 in a .308 or 06 NO PROBLEM! so your statement was either just from being misinformed or you may not have been aware but it's simply not true! as for the carts listed I would pick a .308 you can load 110 or 125 for small critters and it will shoot super flat or you can load 175's 180's and have a good BC and buck the wind well... plus the .308 has better factory ammo offerings than the rest IMHO ...the 06 coming in as a close second. Another thing 500 yards is not that far really! a .308 can make easy work of a 500 yard shot! now sure don't get me wrong shooting at a moose at 500 yards with a .308 is not the smartest thing in the world..and to be honest out of the 3 rifles mentiond , I"m sure plenty has taken moose cleanly ...but none of them are really addiquit Moose Carts. Remember just because you can put the bullet ther in lazer beam fashion @ 500 yard does not mean you have enough kenetic energy for the bullet to do it's job.

Keith
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2004, 12:09 PM
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I prefer the .30-06 over the .270 simply because of the available bullet choices in the .30-06. 55 gr .224 caliber sabot bullets and 110 gr spitzer for varmints, 125/150/165/180 gr bullets for deer/caribou, and 180/200/220 gr bullets for moose, elk, or bear. I don't think the .270 can match that range.

If you're going with the .270 now, may I respectfully suggest that you reconsider purchase of the .30-06 later, and go with something either up or down from the .270/.30-06. The .270 and the .30-06 are virtually identical in trajectory and power, given similar bullet weights, and you're just duplicating utility. I would suggest a good .224/.243/.257 caliber for varmints if you like to hunt them, or a .338/.35/.375 for larger game if that is where your interests lie. Just a suggestion, take it for what it's worth.

Regards,
Mike
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2004, 02:04 PM
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not that it matter but, the multitude of available bullets requires rezero of the 06 and 308. Oddly the 270 shoots the three common avialable weights to pretty much the same imapct point, least well enough for a hunt of big game.

And no i prefer rezero or staying with one load but somefolks like switching back and forth. For what ever reason 270 hits close with the common three.

And no its not a laser rifle but I spent years with a sako 06, truthfully, recoil is less and it is a little bit flatter. Not that it matters of course. The kicker for 270 over 06 is velocity which does matter on thin skin game. It matters not at all on Bear or thick skinned game. Bullet mass is the key there.

The old standard calibers work very well. A 270 with 130, 140 or 150 grain loads, 30-06 with dedicated 150 or 180 grain loads, or a 308 with dedicated 125 or 150 grain loads will suffice for probably 95 percent of all uses you can think of for a rifle. It is the remaining 5 percent that make rifle shooting fun
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2004, 08:37 AM
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Jack O'Connor's rifle books convinced me that the .270 Win was the perfect "one gun" rifle in the mid 1960's. Now I have lots of rifles and I love my rebarreled Savage 111 in 338-06, but I think I would vote for the 7mm Rem Mag for only one gun. Good luck.

George
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2004, 10:34 AM
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While I would never limit myself to one rifle, this discussion has made me realize that I have a rifle that comes very close to meeting these "all around" requirements. This rifle is a Browning BLR in .284 Winchester, with a 2x7 Bushnell Elite 3200 scope. My 139 Hornady spire point loads leave the muzzle at over 2900 fps. I get 2700 fps with the 154 gr and over 2500 fps with the 175 grain RN.

This is a very handy package, easy to carry and quick to point and shoot. With my 139 grain bullets I can reach out, certainly up to 400 yards with authority, and the 154 and 175 grain loads will adequately handle Elk and probably even Moose.
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Old 11-11-2004, 10:50 AM
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I'm really sorry but I just cant do the "one rifle" thing!

But all that aside I'd go with the .270....in fact, I have to because it's what I handload and hunt with. It's equipped with a Mueller Eradicator 8.5-25x50mm red dot scope that really helps with those reaching shots. You will need a scope of this clarity and power to know what you are doing out there over 250yds. I readily shoot to 350yds but anything beyond takes a second thought because of calculating drop. Sight about 3" high at 100 and you'll be about 3" low at 300yds. Not bad. It's a very forgiving rifle and really does give the impression it shoots like a laser.

I would walk out the back door and shoot 400yds (into the backstop, of course) with no prob's...and would reach out there for the big buck this next week. However, 500yds would make me think too much and would lose confidence because I dont readily practice at that range. And you will need lots of practice to shoot and hit that far out.



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Last edited by Perferator; 11-11-2004 at 10:53 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2004, 02:56 PM
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Dairyman,

If you are really serious about this question then "potential" and "flat trajectory" and "handiness" don't really factor into the answer INMHO.

If I were to try to live out the "one gun" myth then I would have to go with "one load" as well.

In that case my answer is 30-06 with 180 gr. Nosler Partition bullet at 2700 fps muzzle velocity. From there it is "Practice, practice, practice." Much of that practice would have to involve range estimation. Without accurate range estimation you might as well forget about shooting at anything over about 300 yards with any expectation of hitting it.

300 yds. is very do-able with large targets like elk and moose IF they are in full view and undisturbed. Even that is a stretch.

The only thing I would shoot at "for the heck of it" at ANY RANGE is inanimate targets with a safe backstop (bullseyes, milk jugs, metal silhouettes). Years ago I gave up shooting at any living creature just for the sake of seeing if I could hit it. Just my personal choice after killing a considerable number of groundhogs, sparrows, crows, etc. in years gone by.

My answer is 30-06 but I could argue for 270 or 308, as well. My deal is that it needs to be "one gun AND one load." When you start using this load for that and another load for the next thing you lose the advantage of "one gun" INMHO.
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