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  #1  
Old 03-13-2005, 04:46 AM
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.45-70 vs. .45-90


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i was wondering if there is any real advantage to the .45-90 over the .45-70 in a gun like the Ruger #1. it seems to me like there is plenty of case capacity in the .45-70 to get the max. pressures the gun/case will take. i'm asking because i am looking at a stainless Ruger #1 in .45/90 at a local gun show. for some reason i'm attracted to this gun, but unless there is a real world performance gain with the .45-90, i'd be better off with a .45-70 because of the ease of getting the brass. i'm away from home (on a friends computer) so i don't have access to my manuals right now.

monty
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2005, 06:23 AM
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In the same caliber, any time you run a larger case to the same pressure as a smaller case, the larger case gets more velocity. By the same rule; rather than run it at the same pressure, can run a larger case at lower pressure to equal the smaller case at high pressure.


Negatives: 45/90's cases aren't real common (not hard to get...but you won't walk into a typical sporting goods store and find any cases)...the manuals generally stop at about 26,000CUP for the 45/90...and I'm really not sure how well the 45/90 brass would take to being pushed too hard.

Positivies: does seem that the 45/90 can get to some pretty impressive speeds without going over the 26,000CUP level.

If this is your firsat big-bore, then go with the 45/70 and the mountain of tested data published....run at higher pressures, it will do anything you'd ask of a big bore rifle. If you've the black powder urge, then the 45/90 bigger volume is really useful.

Last edited by ribbonstone; 03-13-2005 at 06:36 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2005, 06:52 AM
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i have a trapdoor Springfield in .45/70 and a Winchester 1886 in .45/90 that i have reloaded for, but the Ruger #1 is in a whole different world than either, so it is like a new start.
i gotta haggle with the guy and see what i can get it for.

thanks Ribbonstone

monty
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2005, 07:32 AM
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Partly personal preference, but when I go to a bigger case, like to go to a heavier bullet...the 480's to 540's would be nice. Recoil will be up there even with 26K loadings. Lyman takes their 535gr. #457132 right on up to 1700fps at that pressure level and lists the385gr. #427124 as making 2134fps at 26K...but they uses a 29.5" Universal test barrel and not a "real" gun.

Should be within 100fps of real world figures from 38K 45-70 loads...just doing it at 10-12K less pressure.


What is harder to come by is light load practice data...other than black powder, it's not common to find loads in the sedate 1200-1300fps range a lot of us use as "goofing off loads". Larger cases like this are not as well adapted to light smokless loadings as cases of less volume...but if you want to "plink" then use 45-70 cases.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2005, 09:19 AM
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Only if black powder is in your future, or you're already using it.
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2005, 04:55 PM
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If Starline didn't make .45-90 brass, it wouldn't even be a choice. Since they do, it might be fun to wildcat in the #1.... but it'll be a much more difficult project than the .45-70, which has so much more published loading data.

Good luck and have fun.
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  #7  
Old 03-13-2005, 05:54 PM
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I load both 45-70 and 45x2.4 (aka 45-90). If you are a black powder shooter, as I am, the 45x2.4 will hold 12 to 15 grains more powder than the 45-70, which will give you 100 fps or so more velocity.

I selected the 45x2.4 for my new Axtell 1877 sharps rifle because the brass is now available at reasonable cost from Buffalo Arms, www.buffaloarms.com, and Starline. Lyman also sells their 45-90 dies for the same cost as their 45-70 dies and they are in stock. Like everyone else, I used to strongly recommend the 45-70 to those who were just starting out in black powder cartridge shooting. Now I give an equal recommendation to the 45x2.4.

These comments apply of course to those who are loading with black, otherwise known as "real" powder. If you are going to use smokeless powder, then the 45-70 is the obvious choice, as it will give more uniform velocities and probably better accuracy than the larger cases. Shiloh Rifle Co., when asked about the strength of their 1874 action will say that it can take Ruger #1 loads in the 45-70, but that they do not recommend smokeless powder in any of the longer cases.

The original Sharps company developed the 45xs2.4, 45x2.6, and 45x2 7/8 cases because in the black powder era, this was the only way to get the marginal increases in velocity, which made a difference in long range Creedmoor target shooting. These cases were intended for black powder, and have a large volume. When loading with smokeless powder, The 45-70 has the highest loading density for this class of cartridges and will therefore give the best results.

While the Ruger #1 is a strong action, the 45x2.4 is not a 458 Winchester. Do not assume that loading data for the 45x2.4 is interchangeable with the 458. Stay within the loading data given in Lyman's #48 Reloading Handbook. You might wish to give Lyman's 535 grain Postell a try. You can purchase the mold and cast your own, or buy the sized and lubricated bullets from Midway, www.midwayusa.com.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2005, 12:26 PM
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Just because, I'm here and reading this thread. Buy both you'll have fun. If like it is said you are a black powder shooter the 45/90 can make impressions, however did any of you fellas ever try 777 or pyro pellets in the 45-70? You can drop two fifty grain pellets in that case with room for the bullets.
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2005, 02:07 PM
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Swany,
What type of accuracy/velocity and standard deviation did you get with that?
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  #10  
Old 08-10-2006, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monty
i was wondering if there is any real advantage to the .45-90 over the .45-70 in a gun like the Ruger #1. it seems to me like there is plenty of case capacity in the .45-70 to get the max. pressures the gun/case will take. i'm asking because i am looking at a stainless Ruger #1 in .45/90 at a local gun show. for some reason i'm attracted to this gun, but unless there is a real world performance gain with the .45-90, i'd be better off with a .45-70 because of the ease of getting the brass. i'm away from home (on a friends computer) so i don't have access to my manuals right now.

monty
Reply:

I think the question is, are you willing to try something new? After reviewing reloading manuals on the 45-90" capacity, very comparable to the 458 WM, it became quite evident that this cartridge could be reloaded to the same printed velocities listed in the book - "Cartridges of the World". In fact, the pressures they list for a 405 grain (.458) ranging from 42,000 psi through 48,000 psi, creating sustained velocities of 2250-2435 fps sure looked appealing to me. And, worth the effort of rechambering the Ruger 1B in 45-70 to a 45-90.
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  #11  
Old 08-11-2006, 05:39 AM
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Now if you want to load mild to wild just go with a .458 Win Mag. The case length is .45-95 IE 2.5" as with the 45-90 IE 2.4" length.

The .458 Win Mag cases are readily available as well so purchasing smaller case lots is better, and the case is belted as well.

Is there an advantage over the 45-70 vs 45-90?

As stated.. No unless your into BPCR and shooting out past 800 yards. The 45-70 properly loaded will still shoot out to 1,000 yards but.......

Here is some load data for both the 45-2.4" Sharps and the 45-90 Winchester "Express" loadings. When Winchester came out with their lever action rifle loadings it was a 300-grn bullet that was used.

I hope this helps.



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  #12  
Old 08-11-2006, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monty
i was wondering if there is any real advantage to the .45-90 over the .45-70 in a gun like the Ruger #1. it seems to me like there is plenty of case capacity in the .45-70 to get the max. pressures the gun/case will take. i'm asking because i am looking at a stainless Ruger #1 in .45/90 at a local gun show. for some reason i'm attracted to this gun, but unless there is a real world performance gain with the .45-90, i'd be better off with a .45-70 because of the ease of getting the brass. i'm away from home (on a friends computer) so i don't have access to my manuals right now.

monty

To answer your question NO! I would rather have the rifle in a 45 - 110 caliber..........Now you will see a big difference in performance but also recoil!!!...........This is why the 45/70 has been so poplular over the years, not to mention the availability of getting brass etc.
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2006, 06:41 PM
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One of my shooting buddies has a 45-110. Really big case for sure. I guess you have to weigh the joys of ownership against the joys?? of shooting it
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  #14  
Old 08-11-2006, 07:59 PM
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I hear that!!!!!
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