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  #21  
Old 04-08-2006, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp50
Here I am with my refund money in my pocket ready to buy one of the new 750 Woodsmasters. I know that most would consider a Remington semiauto a sin but I am still interested in it for use on whitetail deer at close ranges (100 or below). I like the idea of the 35 Whelen in the 18 inch carbine, but the practicality of the gun for my intended use is low unless I get back into reloading which I hope to be able to do but having the time is always a factor. With .308 ammunition available everywhere and with the intended game species it is difficult to make the decision to "do something different". I am concerned that for the intended use, the only thing different I would see would be a slightly bigger hole in the animal, but the results from both are terminal if applied correctly. I am struggling to decide to go with the Whelen due to the almost non availability of factory ammunition and it's probable slight difference in performance for deer. Any thoughts would be appreciated. JimmyP
Jimmy - I have both a 358 Winchester and a 338-06 (close to a 35 Whelen). I have to tell you that a 308 Winchester is a much more practical HUNTING round for where you live than a 35 Whelen. I would fall into that category known as a gun nut & love to reload as well. All that said, if what you want is a good hunting gun to go kill deer with, I am a HUGE FAN of the 308 Winchester. I honestly think it is a vastly superior hunting cartridge to most of the stuff that is used.

I live and hunt in South West Mississippi - probably very similar to the conditions & deer you are hunting in GA. I think that overall the 308 is a better hunting choice - ammo available practically everywhere (WalMart to country corner store) and plenty of killing power for deer or hogs. Now - if you want a reloading project get the Whelen. But for where you live and what you hunt, the 308 really makes more sense.
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  #22  
Old 04-16-2006, 04:46 AM
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I've had very good luck with my .308 rifle(s) for 36 years. A very good cartridge for long distance shooting or forest hunting as well.

I had a custom 9.3mm rifle built around a Browning BLR. Virtually same ballistics a 35 Whelen but a heavier 285 grain bullet. I shot a medium sized bull elk in the chest at about 150 yards. He trotted away and I hit him again just before he entered the timber. We found the bull dead about 15 yards from where the second bullet struck him.

This is the identical performace my shorter and lighter .308 produces! Does this mean the 9.3mm kills no better than my .308? Just one test is not enough to draw conclusions. But I sold the custom BLR for a small profit and never looked back.
TR
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2006, 09:24 AM
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Last year, I was pondering the same type of choice. Went with neither. I got a bolt gun in 350 rem mag.

Not recommending that to you though...just giving background.

Have you considered the Rem 7600 pump action? YOu can get that in 35 Whelen. It was a special run last year, but you should be able to find one yet. The pump is much more versatile then the Remington auto. I have a 7400 in '06 and you have to be careful of the loads you run thru it. The new model is supposed to be improved, but IMHO the pump gives most of the benefits of a auto with most of the benefits of a bolt gun.

I inherited my auto, and would much rather have the pump.
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  #24  
Old 04-18-2006, 03:43 AM
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You're looking at an 18" barrel and a semi-auto so i'd deffinately go with a 308 alot more efficient use of powder in 18 inches, the Whelen would not be at it's prime without at least 24 inches of barrel. Also I reload and would HATE the thought Whelen brass flying into the bushes never to be found, 308 brass dime a dozen. My 2 cents worth for a penny.
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  #25  
Old 04-18-2006, 09:42 AM
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Why an 18" bbl? IMO there isn't any reason to go shorter in a hunting rifle than 20", with 22" being prety good balance in performance. No need for all the extra muzzle blast, and you will have a significant loss of velocity, period. A 30-30 in a quick lever gun would be darn close to what you are talking about!

Bonz.
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  #26  
Old 04-28-2006, 09:38 PM
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Having both the .308 win in model 100 winchester, 742 remington in the 06, and the 35 whelen in a mauser 98, can say that either of these is a great round for just about anything with the right bullet. The 35 whelen will shoot just as good as either of the others out to about 500 yards and, with much more energy. It is best served in a longer barrel though where it is allowed to "stretch" its legs and actually get some real speed built up. That would be a tough choice, don't know if I could part with either of them in fact, have considered getting another one of each, they all print sub moa groups although, will admit the whelen will punish you for it after a few rounds of shooting in the feather weight.

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  #27  
Old 04-29-2006, 01:15 PM
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One caliber I don't have but I've been impressed with is the 30-06 Ackley Improved after a friend showed me his custom rifle in that chambering, performance just a tad less than a 300wm but one can fire regular 06 ammo which will fire form the brass.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2006, 07:31 AM
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Ditch both and buy a CZ or Sako in 9.3x62!
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  #29  
Old 05-03-2006, 01:29 PM
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Another thought,
what happens if the 35 Whelen goes the way of the dinosaur? Someday maybe you won't be able to get one. .308 will always be around so you should be able to find one forever, and you can always invest in a little press one day and 30-06 brass necks up oh so easily.

Besides, you dont have to load hot. You can load for less recoil or have a good recoil pad put on.

It comes down to, both guns will work for what you are suggesting. Get what makes you happy, not us!

Get the Whelen!
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  #30  
Old 05-03-2006, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kombi1976
Ditch both and buy a CZ or Sako in 9.3x62!

Naahhhh
get the CZ in .375H&H
Speer makes a great 235 grain spitzer for varmints.
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  #31  
Old 05-03-2006, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp50
Here I am with my refund money in my pocket ready to buy one of the new 750 Woodsmasters. I know that most would consider a Remington semiauto a sin but I am still interested in it for use on whitetail deer at close ranges (100 or below). Any thoughts would be appreciated. JimmyP
Seems like the .308 is more practical for this application. A semi-auto would be for fast follow-up shots. Recoil would play a part in how quickly you could accurately follow-up. Don't get me wrong, I favor larger bores myself, and the 35 Whelen is an awesome cartridge ... just don't think it is the ideal choice in this package ... my 2 cents.

As far as reloading is concerned, I say do it regardless of your choice .
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  #32  
Old 05-05-2006, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiddekop
One caliber I don't have but I've been impressed with is the 30-06 Ackley Improved after a friend showed me his custom rifle in that chambering, performance just a tad less than a 300wm but one can fire regular 06 ammo which will fire form the brass.
----

TO stir the pot...

Very interesting article in the latest Handloader mag by Barsness. Until I read this article, I was hot for a 35 WHelen AI, but he minimizes the value of the AI's. Paraphraseing him...most of the gains are from hotter loads and longer barrels. He says a fair comparison of the 35 Whelen vs the AI is only a 1.6% velocity increase.
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  #33  
Old 05-08-2006, 09:42 AM
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Response here to a number of posts...

I agree a 9.3x62 would be a good choice! There isn't enough difference between it and the .35 Whelen AI to make me want one now that I have my 35 AI.

Heck, the .35 Whelen isn't going the "way of the dinosaur". If you only shoot factory ammo, then MAYBE you will have an issue at some point. Then go ahead and shoot "what everyone else shoots" and be happy shooting factory loads. Otherwise, stock up on Whelen ammo for a year or two and you will not run out for a lifetime.


On the 30-06 Ackley Improved, There is no way it will run with a 300 Win Mag. OK, if a 200 fps difference in velocity makes it run with a 300 Win, then it will. Rick Jamison (Shooting Times) did a test of the 30-06 vs. 30-06 AI vs. 30 Gibbs, and the AI (at safe pressures, not EXCEEDING SAMMI spces) had about an 80 fps advantage over the std. 30-06. Still, not even close to a 300 Win Mag at 3075 fps with a 180 grain bullet.

I agree the Whelen needs a longer tube, mine is 25" and it gives it a good velocity gain over what I hear a 22" bbl gives.

Have a good one.
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  #34  
Old 05-09-2006, 08:32 AM
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leverite,

Wayne Van Zwoll came to the same conclusion about the Whelen AI years ago in his book "Elk Rifles and Elk Hunting." After building an AI he was pleased with it but admitted that the performance gain was not worth the trouble and expense in that cartridge. Elsewhere I have read that the 35 Whelen is one of the most efficient (power per powder) cartridges available. No doubt it is a very useful cartridge.

I agree with others that it shines brightest in longer barrels on boltguns although mine is only 22". But I never load for max. velocity anyway.
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  #35  
Old 05-09-2006, 10:50 AM
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Wayne Van Zwoll did an article in handloader where he wrote about the Hawk cartridges, and the 358 Hawk got my attention. I looked at the velocities of the std. 35 Whelen, the 35 Imp. and the 358 Hawk. The Improved wasn't far behind the Hawk cartridges, BUT the Imp. and the Hawk had 26" bbls. The standard Whelen he quoted data for had a 22" bbl. I feel most of the difference is in the bbl length. Given what Rick Jamison showed in his article on the 06 Improved, I would guess the improved whelen is getting 80 fps just from the case difference, and anything else is the bbl length.

I load up to the best velocity that I can get, and accuracy is consistent from starting loads to top loads. I can see if top loads shot patterns instead of groups, you would want to throttle back. Otherwise, for hunting I believe in the most velocity I can get with in pressure limits.

Bonz.
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  #36  
Old 05-09-2006, 01:24 PM
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great AI discussion, so hope you all don't mind my continueing it.

Back when I was young and foolish (2004) I got bit by the AI bug. Did a 30-30 AI conversion, which left me a little disappointed. Feeding problems, lower than expected velocities and lousey accuracy.

I've worked on theses issues one at a time. Feeds fine now, have adjusted my expectations of velocity and have yet to get the sweet load.

Then shifted my fancy to the 35 Whelen and was going to do an AI on an old Mauser 98, but opted for a new 350 Rem mag instead. I think this will work out. Load development is going well, but velocities are below expectations (dang expectations again).

Point of all of this is that my old desire of going for the absolute max velocity is now adjusting to reality, recoil, brass life and accuracy. DOn't think there's any more AI's in my future.
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  #37  
Old 05-09-2006, 01:45 PM
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I can see your frustration! It isn't any fun to work up load after load and have poor accuracy no matter what you do. My 35 AI was put together by a great gunsmith here in Colo Spgs, and has shot 1" groups with anything I put into it for the most part, at all velocities up to max.

The velcocity increase with the 06 AI seems to be best with the heavier bullet weights, and the Nosler manual bears that out as well. If you shoot lighter (150,165) bullets, then the AI won't do much. If you shoot 180,200's I think the AI is worth having for a 100 fps gain, if you want to shoot something different.

That is the main reason for my 35 Whelen AI, it is different, shoots factory loads fine, and I have had no feeding problems but I know the gunsmith did a good job of putting it all together, not just screwing on a bbl and calling it good.

BUT, if primer pocket expansion/tightness is a good indicator of pressure, a 225 Barnes TSX at 2780 fps stay tight. I would be very interested to see how a std. 35 Whelen compares, however I bet it is around 100 fps less.

My case capacity in grains of H380 is only 1.8 grains more filled to the brim of my 35 AI vs. the pre-fireforemd standard Whelen case. SO, there is not a real advantage in capacity, and with that being said, the velocity increase will be small as we all have been discussing.
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  #38  
Old 05-09-2006, 10:13 PM
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If you're really interested in getting near 300 win mag velocity in 30-06 shell length, then the only thing I know of that will do that is the 300 hawk. It is originally based on a 9.3x62 case on steroids and then changed from the .4785 to the .4698 web diameter, which essentially does nothing for overall volume. The case is up to 60000 to 65000 similar to the .308 and very efficient and yes, very comparable to the 300 win mag as is shown here...http://www.z-hat.com/Efficiency%20of...300%20Hawk.htm.


The 35 Whelen though is fine and .358 hawk is a bit too much for most things, the 375 hawk is even more, being able to bring down anything that is a land dweller. The .308 is probably the most efficient of the .308s that you could travel getting 06 type velocity with 10-15% less charge weight on most loads. Also, someone up above said they had a .358 win, that is perhaps the most efficient cartridge ever. It usually is associated with a great hunter from when i have run into them as well. Another great choice. I love em all, you really can't do wrong in this choice...good luck.

Last edited by osoksnip[er; 05-09-2006 at 10:20 PM.
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