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  #1  
Old 04-01-2006, 02:50 PM
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Remington 7615 Pump .223


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Has anyone shot one of these things? Howsabout with a scope? They look like lotsa fun. (link below)

I have a CZ 527 Carbine in .223, a very nice little rifle, but I'm considering trading it in for a 7615. I think I might be giving up a little accuracy, the Rem has a 16.5"bbl compared to my CZ's 18.5. But I like the pump for fast follow-up shots and the high capacity mags among other things.

I've been reading a bit about the 7615 in diff shooting groups and it seems opinions are hot and cold. Though it seems the folks who knock it haven't actually tried it out. They say all sortsa mean things, claiming the barrel won't last, the plastic pump will melt and so on. I'd tend to think Remington knows how to put together a solid rifle by now.

I really like my CZ. I've only had it for about a year and have yet to scope it. It has been a good grouper with the irons and favors Win JHPs.

I can't really afford two guns in the same caliber as there are other guns on the wish list as well. I'd just decided to put a Burris short mag 4 timer on the CZ, but now the 7615 has caught my eye.

Accuracy is a top priority as well as reliability. I'd probably want to put a compact scope, like the Burris on it for ranges hopefully up to 150-200 yards. Not sure how well the 7615 would stack up to the CZ though.

Thanks for any thoughts, I'm fairly new to shooting.

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm
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  #2  
Old 04-02-2006, 08:51 AM
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We tested them just before I retired, thinking was along the lines that for the money and the 2" to 3" groups with iron sights, that with some load twik'en they would make great patrol rifles..

Didn't have a chance to try them with a scope, but with a HOLO type sight the groups came down to a good 1 1/2" at a 75 meters
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  #3  
Old 04-07-2006, 08:48 PM
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some of the guys at the gun club have been looking at them, It would be an ideal gun for the running deer shoots, the pump is the ideal platform and 223 is the perfect caliber but the 7600 doesn't feed the 223's very well, in fact, one gunsmith would solder a 788 magazine into the 7600 so it would feed right
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Old 04-08-2006, 12:51 AM
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Thanks guys. I've ordered the Burris for the CZ which I reckon I'll be hanging on to for a while. I'm gonna pick up a Taurus Thunderbolt in .357, which should satisfy my need for a pump-action for now.
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2007, 10:11 AM
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From a design consideration standpoint this appears to be a excellent approach to a weapon system not only for law enforcement but others as well. With a little massaging the system could be significantly enhanced.

We are assuming the AR mag system feeds, fires and extracts well and with that assumption we can consider other possibilities.

First off I would purchase the model with the short buttstock and the standard rifle sights.

Second I would mount a Scout Scope base available from Brownell’s for the Rem 700. Might have to do some mill work as this base as issued might just be a tad long and in need of tweaking. This would put a low power (2X) Scout Scope in front of the receiver and be completely attached to the barrel. There is another scope base that also doubles as a rear sight aperture so you could have a iron sight point blank as well as scope capability.

The Remington pumps have several things going for them. The human engineering on their semi autos and pumps are excellent for the vast majority of users so that doesn’t need changing. In this case I would opt for the shorter buttstock w/ 13” length. This will accommodate women, kids and most guys as there is no recoil to worry about.

The best thing on the 7600 series is that the barrels are totally free floating which makes them an excellent base to start from in the accuracy department.

Somebody was on the ball in engineering and speced a 10 twist barrel. These will stabilize the 69 gr. Sierra bullets in either bought or handloads and maybe just might stabilize the 77 grain enough to utilize for indoor work.

Without a lot of effort the front of the tube could have a longer stud fabricated that would not only have sling capability but be turned to accept the M16 bipod.

Trigger pull on Rems are a little better than standard AR triggers so that is a plus and of course they too can be tweaked if one knows what he is doing.

Another positive thing I like about this system is they are done right. For instance I have never seen a 760 series weapon that did not deliver a center hit on the primer. On the other hand I have rarely (count on one hand no less) the number of Rem 700s that gave similar indents. Thread alignment and receiver front end out of square has been well documented in other articles.

Insofar as further enhancements to the system there are several things that could be done to enhance hit probability, projectile energy and make it more effective at longer ranges. The 760 lends itself quite readily to being rebarreled but in this configuration you have to stay with a round that will feed from the magazine. 6MMX45 (6/223) w/ 9 twist will stabilize up to 80 grain bullets. I suspect velocities in the range of 2600 fps would be achievable in the 16 ½” barrel. I have seen this caliber shot at 1000 yards at Camp Perry and accuracy was acceptable.

The 6.5TCU (of Thompson Contender fame) might also be a option if overall length is kept within magazine length. Most likely the 100 grain 6.5 bullet would be the max you could get by with. I have one of these in a Contender Super 14 and it will shoot 1 ¼” at 100 yards just fine.

By far the biggest shortcoming of this system is the ability to clean it without damaging the muzzle area takes utmost care and patience so as not to ruin the barrel. One cleaning session with a M16 jointed cleaning rod and I can see this weapon system open groups up horribly. With a little care and forethought one could make a cleaning rod guide that would insure the rod stayed away from the muzzle. A picture is worth a 1000 words so here are the pics:

http://www.beastwerks.com/Bore%20Guides/bore_guides.htm

This is the best protection design I have ever seen for the semi auto/pump gun that can’t be cleaned from the chamber. I have a number of these and leave them on every cleaning rod I have.

Basically I think the boys at Ilion have done something very unique and are on the right track. I have already got my dealer looking for one of them. If the prices are the same as the ARs then all bets are off.
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2007, 01:27 PM
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I have a Remington 7600 .270 deer rifle and they're as accurate as a guy wants them to be. Mine shoots 1 MOA and less with reloads ( 100 yds + ). On the .223 special run offered by Grice " http://www.gricewholesale.com/specials_7600.php " I have a few reservations about the magazine setup, but I have no experience handling this rifle.


Regards, Vic
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2007, 12:55 PM
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This rifle caught my eye a while back, but the reported accuracy was pretty poor. DOn't know why that would be...accurate platform and an accurate cartridge.

I have a 7600 in 30-06 that I like. Will wait and see on this new rifle before purchasing. As I recall, they weren't cheap.
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2007, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leverite
This rifle caught my eye a while back, but the reported accuracy was pretty poor. DOn't know why that would be...accurate platform and an accurate cartridge.

I have a 7600 in 30-06 that I like. Will wait and see on this new rifle before purchasing. As I recall, they weren't cheap.
The 7615 is in fact based on the 20Ga 870 shotgun receiver.
Has been all along. Meant for defence purposes and not a sniper rifle. Light recoil as well. Was originally intended for law enforcement with all shapes and sizes of users, but now released as a civilian "Ranch Rifle".
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2007, 07:49 AM
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Remington Model 7615

Having carried the Remington Model 870 (vehicle rack) in law enforcement for some 40 years, the Model 7615 is a natural transition. The caliber is totally adequate for the intended purpose. This is the same caliber carried by our military since Vietnam.

It is compact, quickly on target with the ghost ring and accepts the AR15 magazine. It comes with a 10 round mag, however, I recommend the 30 round mag. Remember, always load 2 less than magazine capacity so as not to bind the cartridges.

The one thing I do not like about the firearm is that in order to remove the trigger assembly for cleaning, as recommended in the manual, you must remove the butt/recoil pad assemble and loosen the stock about 3/8" to allow clearance to remove the assembly. You must also remove the magazine retention screw with an allen wrench.

The difficult part about the removal of the butt assembly is accessing the two screws through very small holes in the recoil pad. A #2 phillips screw driver must be used and it takes a lot of torque to remove the screws the first time. I recommend coating the screws with Sil-Glide jelly prior to reinstalling them for easier removal next time.

In my opinion Remington should have used two allen head screws which could have been easily accessed through the small holes and better leverage could have been used. I am looking for replacement screws with allen heads.

Once you become familiar with the disassembly it can be accomplished easily, however, I would not attempt it in the field.

For personal/home defense I recommend the police load, 55 grain full metal jacket. With the slide action this firearm has all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of an autoloader.
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2007, 10:07 AM
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Welcome, Oldcop - glad to have you here.

House rules are simple - respect the opinions of others and be courteous in your replies. Post nothing you wouldn't want your wife or grandkids to read.

I too, carried a racked M870 for years in a squad car and found it to be an excellent firearm. Have no experience with the new Remington, but your suggestions make sense.
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2007, 06:14 AM
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Since the first post I have now obtained a 7615 and have started to evaluate the system from a technical and tactical view. When I first received the rifle I identified several unacceptable issues and it was boxed up and sent back to Remington where they agreed with my evaluation and replaced the barrel.

Prior to sending it back I had fired 80 rounds through it and the feed/extraction/ejection could not have been better. On the early ones apparently there was a problem???? with feeding but I did not experience such in the first 80 rounds.

Since the system has the fast twist and will stabilize the heavier bullets (69 Gr. Sierra MKs) I see no reason with the right sights that this system will be effective at longer ranges.

While I agree the majority of law enforcement operations are close range, I am looking to develop a combination for the rural officer that may well develop into a long range situation as well as the metro units.

I have been doing alot of work with Scout rifles the last several years using both Scout Scopes and handgun scopes mounted the same way. These have been tested to 635 yards with acceptable performance. These scopes are adequate for 6" steel plates at 300 yards.

I have such a combination on a Remington 700 Conversion I call The Confederate Swamp Gun which is a pillar bedded wood sporter stock with heavy Pacnor 22" swamp cut barrel in 7/08 using 150 Gr. Sierra MK bullets sporting a Harris 6-9" bipod.

Recently I traveled to the other end of Georgia with a friend to deliver a M1A to be accurized. There was a 300 yard range and my gunsmith friend liked the look of my rig and asked me to try the steel head plate at 300 which is cut to duplicate a normal head in a elongated fashion and painted white.

I fired three rounds and noted the group was close on the target but did not go down myself for a looksee. After I left my friend later told me he went down and measured the impact points and told me it was 2" for three shots from a cold/clean barrel. Not bad for a 2X scope at 300 yards.

Thus I know the scope system (2 to 3X) is capable of delivering head shot accuracy if I can just tweak the 7615 system I think I can get it to go with the right ammo at the longer ranges.

As indicated by others the pump rifles are a great combination for running deer matches and one of the top barrel makers in Wisconsin told me guys have been rebarreling 760s for years there just for such matches.

The 7615 barrel system is free floated so theoretically if the barrel is good and the sight system is good the accuracy should be there as well.

Another potential problem I see from this system is one must be extremely careful cleaning from the muzzle end. My 22 cal rods average .200 diameter and I recognized immediately that I would not be able to maintain a push through the barrel with a standard rod without contacting the muzzle so I made up a rod guide that fits snugly over the muzzle and slides up to almost contacting the front sight. A .201" hole was put in guide thus the rod clears the rifling theoretically about .010" on each side.

A GI jointed rod should not be used on this rifle as the rod when screwed together is generally not straight and you can be assured of ruining a barrel in as little as one cleaning session as it will destroy the crown if allowed to contact.

I use one piece Dewey or Parker Hale 22 rods.

Unless someone has information to the contrary the 760/7600 do not exhibit the problems the 700s with the receiver as identified is Hinnant's book Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting (which I can highly recommend to everyone) which is basically the threads may not be square with the bore line and the front of the receiver may not be square the barrel contacts.

This out of square thread situation is not necessarily unique to the 700 in that I have seen the same condition in Mod 70 Winchesters and 1903A3 receivers.

Case in point, a friend gave me some take off barrels he had no use for and I have several 03A3 receivers with no barrels so I figured I would barrel one up. One of the barrels was 22 cal with 10 twist light varmint weight made by Shaw and a looksee with the borescope confirmed it had not been cared for at all. It was pitted, well worn in the throat and basically a dog. I decided to chop the threads and rethread for 03 and chamber it for 22-250 to make it a truck gun. Even if it only shot 2 to 3 inches at 100 it would be good enough for coyotes, snakes etc so I started to clean on it to see just how back it was.

Before the chop job I started with a bronze brush and Ed's Red and started scrubbing. I have never seen a barrel with so much carbon build up. I was at the end of the second bronze brush when it finally gave up all the carbon it had packed away and then I chopped the threads and rethreaded for 03. I cut a nice snug fitting thread I could hand tighten all the way to the shoulder and that is when I got my first shock of just how bad bolt gun actions can be.

I had trued the front of the actions so they were square with a grinding set up on all the actions and ran the first one on and to my shock it contacted the receiver at 2:00 only. Pulled it off and tried the second action and it contact at 10:00. The third action contacted at 6:00! ! !! The fourth action contacted all the way around so I continued the chamber.

I haven't even finished assembling the rifle as I don't have all the 03 parts I need to do it but I mounted scope blocks and a 15X Unertl on it and gave it a run. Got it sighted in and lo and behold the first group I fired was just under half inch at 100 ! ! ! !

This just goes to show you that you cannot judge a barrel by the way it looks. You must shoot it to really see and it must be clean to give you a reliable indicator.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2007, 06:26 AM
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I am a happy owner of two Remington 7600 pumps, 22" 35 Whelen and 18.5" 30-06. Both shoot 1-2 MOA consistently.

I am still clumsy installing the box magazine, maybe it will get better with practice.

The barrels are free floating, but because the barrel tab is tightened to the receiver with the fore-end, these guns seem to have a tendency to have vertical stringing when shooting from a bench and having the fore-end on the support bags.

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Old 09-16-2007, 06:58 AM
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Note you have the high capacity magazines (10 rounds). How do they do? My experience with after market mags is abysmal at best but the metal one I have seen seems to be made right. How do you like them, how many rounds have you fired etc.

I too would like a 760 in 35 Rem. If you are into cast bullets Lyman made a 222 grain bullet for the 357 maximum years back. Don't know the number off top of my head but I have the mold. I load this bullet in 357 Mag handgun and the penetration is awesome. I can get 1200 fps out of a 6" barrel but find 1100 fps is more accurate.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2007, 08:18 AM
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The 10 round aftermarket magazines have not worked properly, but I have not spent any time yet investigating the cause. The factory four rounders work well and I have been using them.
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2008, 02:52 AM
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I recently got the 7615 tactical as well, and I'm very impressed with it. The AR style colapseable stock is very handy, and makes this an excellent truck gun. The mag is an AR mag, and if I simply jam it into the reciver I will have feeding problems. But that is very easily avoided by simply not Jamming the mag in, or by tipping it slightly so the mag isn't pushed up in the front. Maybe a different mag would fix the issue, but now that I know about it, its never jammed again. I've noticed the iron sights are a little too "thick" for longer range shots, but thats not what they were designed for anyway. I use a simmons 2-7 X 44 presidental (pretty old one) and leupold QR rings. I'm able to hit a 2" target at around 100yrd consistantly resting the rifle against my knees in a sitting position which is more than enough accuracy for my needs. I do find that the trigger pull is a little too hard. I don't notice it in the field, but at the indoor range it feels a little to heavy for the longer shots. I'm sure a gunsmith would be able to smoothen it up for me. Also, I've found the best groups (overlaping holes) at 50yrds in the range was with the cheapest bullets! The American Eagle 55gr fmjhp, $9 dollars a box, out preformed the remington fmjhp 45gr, rounds completly. But that could be due to the rate of twist mentioned in previous replys. I just know that the cheap ones seem to work the best

All in all, I'm very pleased with this gun. I would love for remington to adapt it for some other cartridges. I think if it came in a 44mag or 444 with 10shot and the same length that it would be even more fun then it already is! But if you want a great little carbine 223, this one has my vote!
Hope I was a little help to you

Last edited by Barrgeo; 07-12-2008 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 07-12-2008, 04:30 AM
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Remington Pump 223

Very interesting the problems and experiences others have had. I got one and I also had problems of a different nature which mainly at first was the bore in the barrel was not straight and looking closely from the muzzle I could tell the bore center line drifted downwards so much that the rifle could not be sighted in at 100 yards. It grouped well at 100 but with scope at top of travel it was still about six inches low at 100 yards. If it had drifted upwards towards 12:00 I would not have touched it as it shot well and had the finest factory chamber I have ever seen. Must have been cut with a older reamer as the case expansion on the web area was only like. 002".
I boxed it up and sent it back with a long letter to the Chief Engineer. When it returned the new barrel appeared to be straight and I could then zero it for 200 yards but ran out of elevation at 300 yards.

Without some very exotic measurement capability I can only take a educated guess at what the problem may be.

The scope base was checked (see through) and the base has absolutely no taper so there is no problem there. The scope rings are Burris Signature Zee Rings and they measure out correctly. Now assuming the bore center line and the top of the receiver and supposed to be parallel, then would could reasonably conclude with the scope set in the middle of it's adjustment range, the Point of impact should be within a few inches of the point of aim at 100 yards. I have experienced this with a Marlin 45-70 where a scope was at the top of the travel at 100 yards.

The rifle as received back seems to want to shoot very well grouping at 300 yards with 69 gr. handloads but I keep getting one flier which opens it over 3" at 300. I believe I have not found the right propellant yet and the fouling from that propellant is the problem as the flier occurs on the third, fourth or fifth shot.

I have no feed problems with it, no extraction, no ejection but I do have a problem with the striker energy. I have a fixture for measuring firing pin indent energy and the available striker energy does not come any where close to the specification of the M16 family of weapons. Due to the construction of milspec munitions with heavy primer cups, reliable ignition requires that there be significant striker energy and this rifle is about 23% under the M16 minimum.

To save lots of writing check this out on: http://www.eotacforum.com/viewtopic....3fc91efe250473

This lack of sufficient energy can 1. cause misfires, 2. cause blanked out primers where the energy during the pressure rise overpowers the striker energy and allows reverse flow of the primer into the striker opening is noted. Thus I know that as time goes on the striker energy will get less and I am likely to experience blanked primers which will erode the hemispherical section of the striker.

I have just received some of the .020" offset inserts for the Burris Signature mounts which should allow me to mount the scope in a downward tilt configuration so I can sight the rifle in for 300 easily. My next plan is to mount a Burris Ballistic Plex Scope, zero for 300 and use the dots to establish zeros out to hopefully 500 yards.

I have a 4X8 target plotting board constructed I will cover with news print so I will be able to determine exactly where the dots will zero when using them at 400, 500 and 600 yards.

I will also probably purchase some higher energy springs from Wolfe Springs to eliminate the reverse primer flow potential. While I am in there I will do a trigger job. I did one on a 742 30.06 carbine once and it worked quite well. I traded it off quickly when I learned there were to be no more parts for the 742 and the receiver would show signs of wear soon which is a condition where the bolt when unlocking will rotate too far and jam the action to where the bolt will not operate correctly. I have seen this on three of them and I have one borrowed now a friend TIG welded the rails to build them back up to allow it to be used some more.
This problem (I am told) has been eliminated on the 7400 design.
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:26 AM
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Good informative post Humpy
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  #18  
Old 01-16-2009, 04:29 PM
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Arrow

I was looking for a new rifle would you guys pick the Remington 7615 Tac. or a Mini 14?

And why?

Thanks.
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:44 PM
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http://www.eotacforum.com Scroll down to General Rifle Discussion. There is a long thread and alot of testing of one at the above site with over 8600 hits.

Personally for accuracy I would take the 7615 if nothing else for mag availability as they take AR mags.

Iron sights on a mini are lacking in my opinion. I had a friend who had one and it bent firing pins in the 7.62X39 variation.
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Last edited by Humpy; 01-16-2009 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 03:54 PM
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Hey guys,

I'm from Australia.. just put a deposit on one of these, black with red dot scope.

I'll own it in 28 days...

Just a couple of questions for Mr.Humpy about the cleaning guides. I am a little concerned, this will be my first centrefire, its not a cheap one at that, and I don't want to damage the barrell through incorrect cleaning...

is there anywhere I can purchase one of the cleaning rod guides you have spoken about earlier in this thread ? I don't own a lathe.

oh and, thanks for the very informative posts
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