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  #1  
Old 08-07-2006, 06:46 PM
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.458 win mag recoil?


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Just curious, I recently purchased a .458 in mag interarms whitworth. I was wondering , are there any cases where recoil harmed a human being, other then, minor bruising and discomfort?
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  #2  
Old 08-07-2006, 08:20 PM
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Retina detachment comes to mind..... don't know how common it is, though.
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  #3  
Old 08-08-2006, 07:26 AM
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I'm sure there are countless examples of people who have been injured by recoil - mostly because they did not have the buttstock firmly planted in their shoulder. It's simply a force being applied to your chest/shoulder region, like someone hitting you. Bruised soft tissue mostly, with possible tendon/ligament tearing and bone breaking in extreme cases. Could knock the wind out of someone and also a headache due to rapid head movement not unlike whip-lash. With a 458 Wim Mag? Probably like Mike Tyson hitting you if you are not ready for it.

With a 9# rifle, a 400gr bullet leaving at 2380 will deliver ~62 Ft-Lbs of energy. I don't think your average person has an idea how much force that is, especially when applied within a fraction of a second to ~8 square inches of soft tissue. 60 Ft-Lbs is the force required to lift 60 lbs one foot off the ground. No problem if you do that over 10 seconds. But recoil energy is only one element, you have recoil velocity too, and that buttstock is delivering 60 ft-lbs of energy very quickly. Imagine slowly lifting 60 lbs in the air vs. trying to lift it by hitting it with your fist.

Another thing too, as soon as you discharge that rifle, and you have it buried in your shoulder, you just became a giant lever, or torque wrench. For a given weight, a taller person is going to experience greater recoil-induced rearward movement than a short person. Archimedes once said "Give me a lever long enough, and a place on which to rest it, and I will move the world". The taller the person, the longer the lever (your feet are the pivoting point) and the more work the same force can achieve.
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Old 08-08-2006, 07:39 AM
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Shoulda thought twice before getting a cape buffalo/elephant gun and worrying about recoil

Brusing, broken bones, dislocated joints, retinal detachment, other damaged tissues etc...
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Old 08-08-2006, 11:09 AM
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we'll take some of the meat!

I'd love to have or know someone with a 458 Winnie - at the very least for the experience of shooting it once and holding some of that ammo in my hand. Maybe a 577 Tyrannosaur moreso. I think if I ever want to take down something tremendously large I'll max out with a 378 Weatherby Mag - That's my dream big bore chambering.

ktmcycle - please let us know how it handled. That's more gun than I think I could ever handle so I envy you. . I'm 6' and 220 (thanks to home brewing, not weight lifting) and ~25 ft-lbs is about the limit of what I am comfy with. Fortunately that ammo price will keep you from shooting more than a few rounds. And anyone else at the range will come over to see what you are shooting.

Recoil is something not be taken lightly, it has the potential to serioulsy disable you, at least temporarily, when the energy is too great. I'd have to say that orthopedic restoration/rehabilitation is rivaled by very few other conditions when it comes to time and cost.

If I was to own one, I'd pay someone else to sight it in and then go hunt dangerous African game with it, having never fired it. The flinch factor will be significant after just once magazine full of that cartridge. Then I'd say 'Ok, been there, done that, mount the hide and cook the meat, and break out the rum!'

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Old 08-08-2006, 12:48 PM
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I do not have any experience with a .458 Winchester, but I do with the .45-70. I used to shoot black powder cartridge rifle, with 535 grain cast bullets behind 70 grains of black powder. These were all shot prone, and some weekends the match course of fire required about 100 shots a day. When I started out I developed a recoil headache by the end of the day. Then I started using a PAST shoulder pad and the recoil headache went away.
You are unlikely to be shooting that many rounds at a time, and unlikely to be doing it from the prone position. Standing or sitting will allow your body to move with the recoil. But, a recoil headache is still a possiblity. Get a good recoild pad, or use a PAST shoulder pad as a supplement to the one on the gun.
Have fun.
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Old 08-08-2006, 01:41 PM
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I've been winded that's about all ... moved from an air-rifle shooting "free recoil" to the 458Lott and touched one off before realising I hadn't tucked it back properly. Best advice is to shoot your 458WM either sitting or standing to allow your body to move. Benchrests are usually too low causing you to hunch over the rifle ... amplifying the recoil effect. I had the same rifle (but a Zastava) in the same caliber and they're okay to shoot. If your worried about recoil then factory loads are not where you want to start. Reload the 350gr Hornady RN to 2450fps and recoil will be tamed and you'll be amazed how versatile the 458WM can be.
Cheers...
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Old 08-08-2006, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acrsaved

Another thing too, as soon as you discharge that rifle, and you have it buried in your shoulder, you just became a giant lever, or torque wrench. For a given weight, a taller person is going to experience greater recoil-induced rearward movement than a short person. Archimedes once said "Give me a lever long enough, and a place on which to rest it, and I will move the world". The taller the person, the longer the lever (your feet are the pivoting point) and the more work the same force can achieve.

To the uninitiated, greater recoil-induced rearward movement means less pain. Think of a drunk rolling with the punches. The more you move, the less you soak up. I am 6' tall and so is my best friend. Only I weigh 180 and he weighs 325. I can out last him in recoil ten fold because his body soaks up more punishment. It takes more energy to move him than it does to move me.


As for the recoil from a .458 Win....ahhh its a real pussy cat....I shoot mine one handed (with my weak hand). Heck I had Bond Arms build me a Derringer in .458 Win, its my fair weather carry gun....after all, Superman wears Swamp Collie underwear.....

Anyhow, all kidding aside, its pretty harsh. I shoot .375s on a regular basis and am of the opinion that they aren't really that bad. .470NEs are getting up there. I think that the 416 Rigby loads aren't as bad as the .458 Win, but it also depends on the gun. I haven't had the chance to fire a 458 Lott, but I suspect it is worse than a 458 Win. However, I cannot imagine anything being worse than a .460 Weatherby. You could shoot down a satelite with one of those things.
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Old 08-08-2006, 07:17 PM
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I have in fact shot 2 rounds from a 458 Win. That was enough to satisfy my curosity forever. I also shoot a Ruger #1 in 45-70 and did a couple of hot loads. These things were right on a 458's tail. Not fun to shoot, but in the right circumstance, I would do it again. I mean like a Kodiak bear looking at me for lunch or some other animal with a foul attitude. Otherwise, I will pass thank you..
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  #10  
Old 08-08-2006, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmcycle
Just curious, I recently purchased a .458 in mag interarms whitworth. I was wondering , are there any cases where recoil harmed a human being, other then, minor bruising and discomfort?

I like the Whitworths, but they are kind of on the light side for the .458 (and even a bit light for the .375)...easy to carry and fast to the shoulder, but they tend to kick the snot out of you from a bench.

From standing, it still gets you attention, but is much more liveable....so get out a step-ladder and set your bag on top of that. Looks silly, and isn't neary as stable as a bench rest, but it's more stable than off hand and it takes most of the sting out of the experinece.

Yep...can actually physically damage a person...thin shouldered folks more than those with upper body padding. I'm no giant, being 5'11" and 165pounds, but can shoot one if needs be...it's the "if needs be" part that give you the clue to how much i care for that much recoil just to make a hole in paper. Given an angry bear, I doubt the recoil would bother me at all...but an angry sheet of paper?
----------

Think my factory issed .375 Whitworth ran about 7 1/2 pounds...with a 3X scope and mount, call it 8. After a few range sessions, added weights to bring it up to a more pleasing 9 pounds (had to add it front and rear to keep some kind of ballance).

A bit of work on the inletting BEFORE it cracks the stock is a good idea....cut some blind slots ("blind" becasue the work was done without breaking thorugh the outside) and some internal crossbolting and 'glass seemed to cure the tendency for stock to crack.
--------
think about this: it's a .458...is a lot easier to load one of them to 45/70 ballistics than it is to get a 45/70 up to .458 ballistics. There is a pertty good .375Winchester (or 38/55) inside of that .375H&H too.

Last edited by ribbonstone; 08-08-2006 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 08-09-2006, 04:09 PM
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ktmcycle,
the fun is just beginning! Don't worry, you arent in the .460 Weatherby class for recoil. If you do decide you are going to shoot it from the bench and I think that at some point you probably will just to see how accurate you are with it, get a PAST Recoil shield. Do not pass go, go directly to your local retailer adn get one. Then all you have to deal with is the concussion from shooting the thing. Your head will be whipped back and forth a bit. Coup-countercoup injury sound interesting? That's what recoil headache is about. Your brain bouncing around in your skull.

I have fired the .458 and it wasn't bad. I dislike the Ruger #3 in 45-70 loaded hot and heavy more than the 458. 7 pounds isn't nearly as forgiving in a rifle as 9. 10 pounds is even better. Ribbonstone is right on about the Whitworth stock and its propensity to crack. It can be fixed so that becomes a less likely issue.

If you like big rifles then you will be happy. I've got a Ruger 77 Magnum in 416 Rigby and it is more fun to shoot than humans should have. Heavy bullets are a GOOD THING!
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