» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Rifle and Rifle Cartridges > Rifles and Rifle Cartridges
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-08-2006, 03:09 PM
Renthorin's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 157
30.30 vs 30-06 I know nothing...


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


I hear people talk about them as if they are interchangable but I always though the 30-06 was more powerful???

Is one better for deer hunting?
Do people target shoot with them?
How much is ammo?

Thanks and sorry for the stupid newbie questions...
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-08-2006, 03:34 PM
amndouglas's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Montana
Posts: 549
You are correct. The 30-06 is much more powerful than the 30-30. Both are 30 caliber, but the 30-06 has a larger case capable of holding more powder. They are not interchangable, in that you cannot possible shoot a 30-30 cartridge in an -06, or vice versa.

Which one is better for deer hunting is debatable. In the thick woods, the 30-30 has probably taken more deer than any other round because the rifles chambered for it are generally quick handling lever actions and ideally suited for shots of under 200 yards. The 30-06, on the other hand is more well-suited for longer shots because the higher velocities mean less bullet drop, making distant targets easier to hit.

However, there is another tradeoff. The 30-06 can be a handful for smaller shooters or people who are sensitive to recoil. The 30-30 on the other hand is usually easier on the shoulder, and it's sufficient to take down deer at the ranges that shots are normally taken.

People shoot targets with just about everything. I'm no authority on target shooting, but the 30-06 is more well-suited to long-range target shooting, though I believe it is being used less as more people use 308 Win, 300 Win Mag, and 30-378 Weatherby rifles.

Ammunition for the 30-30 is generally cheaper than 30-06 ammo. Many times 30-30 shells will go on sale around this time for under $10 for 20 rounds while 30-06 cartridges will be just over $10 for Remington Core-Lokt ammo. Cartridges loaded with premium bullets will be higher.

Hope this helps.

amndouglas
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-08-2006, 03:50 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Winchester, VA
Posts: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renthorin
I hear people talk about them as if they are interchangable but I always though the 30-06 was more powerful???

Is one better for deer hunting?
Do people target shoot with them?
How much is ammo?

Thanks and sorry for the stupid newbie questions...
First off your questions are not stupid. That is why this forum is so great. You can ask any question, and generally you will get all the info you need and then some. This forum site has been a wonderful place for me to find information and get suggestions.

Ok, 30/30 and 30.06. Not interchangeable. Not even close. The only two things these cartridges have in common is that they are both 30 caliber (.308) and they are both bottleneck cartridges. The 30/30 got its designation way back when cartridges were still loaded with black powder. It was a 30 caliber bullet and loaded with 30 grains of black powder. The 30.06 cartridge got its designation from being 30 caliber and being adopted by the US military in the year 1906.

The '06 is longer in length and generally uses spire pointed bullets. The 30/30 is shorter and generally uses blunt nosed bullets, mainly because of being loaded in a tubed magazine. The 30/30 is usually limited to a max of about 200 yds. The '06 will have an effective range of about 500 yds. Of course some may disagree with my ranges, but just as many will probably agree.

Both cartridges have been killing deer, bear, elk, etc... for many years. Up to about 150 yds the killing effect I would imagine is basically the same. Beyond that range is where the '06 picks up and leaves the 30/30 in both accuracy and power. Factory loaded ammo is generally within a few $$ of one another, unless you get into special bullet types. 30/30 rifles generally are only found in lever-action guns, although some manufacturers have made them in bolt-action (savage) and there are still some that make them in break-open designs. The '06 has been loaded in all forms of actions, semi-auto, fully-auto, bolt, lever, break-open, pump. You name it, it's been chambered in it.

There are shooting matches that both cartridges are used in. However, most of the matches that would contain 30/30 would be Cowboy action shooting. The '06 can be found in all sorts of shooting types, from military to civilian.

I know I have left a lot of info out on these cartridges. But I am sure that somebody else here will fill in the gaps, or correct me if I am wrong. :-)
__________________
Hunting is not a necessity.......it is an obsession!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-08-2006, 03:56 PM
Renthorin's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 157
Talking

Cool. Thanks for the good info so far.

By interchangable I meant the people I speak to casually have tossed them about as if they are basically the same gun...not that rounds from one would fit into the other. Sorry for the confusion.

I am not a large guy but I don't think the recoil would bother me too much.

Can someone recommend a good entry model of each one? I don't want to spend a lot of money on it as it will be my first one.

I plan to target shoot for now and maybe deer hunt in a year or so.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-08-2006, 04:19 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Winchester, VA
Posts: 568
As mentioned previously, both cartridges have been loaded in several different actions. If you have never fired either, then you may want to before you make a decision. There is a definate difference in the recoil between the two. But neither is brutal. I bought my first "hunting" rifle when I was 16. It was an '06. But I had been hunting with 3" 12 gauge slugs for several years prior, so the recoil to me was less with the '06!

My suggestion for your first rifle is to first decide on the cartridge. If you want a 30/30, then you can easily find a good serviceable used lever action from several manufacturers. If you plan on using open sights, then either a Winchester 94 or a Marlin 336. If you want to use a scope, then I would go with the Marlin. Winchester levers are mostly top-eject models, although they did make some side-angle eject rifles. Top ejection requires you to mount a scope on the side of the gun. Functionable, but a real pain in the ar$$ if you ask me.
Marlin lever actions eject out the right side of the receiver, allowing for easy scope mounting. The other good thing about levers is that you can easily mount see-thru mounts and use either the iron sights or the scope.

If you decide you want an '06, then I would suggest a bolt action model. Of all the other actions, these are the simplest and easiest to work once you get used to the long bolt throw. Again, I would suggest a good serviceable used gun. If you want a new gun, then I would seriously consider the Savage M110. These, in my opinion, are the best out-of-the-box factory produced rifles on the market for the money. All the new models have the accu-trigger incorporated in them and package rifles can be purchased for a very reasonable price.

I am an eternal Ruger and Winchester bolt guy, but for the money, the Savages are a good deal. I am partial to the three-position safety that Ruger and Winchester use, and that is why I prefer them. However, I my next rifle may very well be a Savage, just for the price factor.

You can't go wrong with either cartridge for deer under 200 yds.
__________________
Hunting is not a necessity.......it is an obsession!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-08-2006, 04:25 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renthorin
Cool. Thanks for the good info so far.

By interchangable I meant the people I speak to casually have tossed them about as if they are basically the same gun...not that rounds from one would fit into the other. Sorry for the confusion.

I am not a large guy but I don't think the recoil would bother me too much.

Can someone recommend a good entry model of each one? I don't want to spend a lot of money on it as it will be my first one.

I plan to target shoot for now and maybe deer hunt in a year or so.
For a good 30-30, I would choose a Marlin Lever Model 336,

As far as the 30-06 I would take a close look at the Savage models. They come with a real good trigger, and it would be easy to just buy different barrels and headspace guages making for a real nice switch barrel rifle.

Other good choices would be from CZ or else Remington or Ruger. All are quality firearms, but you are looking at low cost, that is why the recommendation of the Savage.
__________________
Lee L.

America= Land of the Free, Because of the Brave. == May God Bless Them All.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-08-2006, 04:34 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,541
You should check out your local library and ask for a copy of Cartridges of the World. Or you can get it from Mid South Shooters Supply or Midway. Great reading. You can read it one page at a time whenever you get a spare moment.
__________________
slim
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-08-2006, 05:06 PM
Rocky Raab's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,321
They are "interchangeable" only in the fact that both have killed (literally) trainloads of game. The one, the only, truly universal chambering, worldwide, is the .30-06. It will do for 99.99999% of all hunting everywhere on the planet, barring only the most dangerous of African game and the biggest brown bears.

The .30-30 is almost laughed at these days, but it is a potent but friendly cartridge, chambered in some very beloved rifles and eminently suitable for most deer hunting in the US of A. But nothing much beyond that.

If you hunt nothing but the woods of (pick a state from Florida to Washington) for deer, a .30-30 will be all you ever need.

But, if you hunt those places AND want to hunt something bigger than deer in more open terrain, then the .30-06 is the better choice.

The .30-30 will do much. The .30-06 will do almost everything. It's that simple.
__________________
To see my books and articles, just Google my name.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-08-2006, 07:35 PM
Jim H's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,001
boy not much to add to this but i will point out you can get a beter visual of the differance in performance of the two if you where to go to Remingtons web site and do a side by side comparison on their balistic charts between the 30-30 and the 30-06 with the same weight bullet. energy downrange is at two ends of the spectrum between the two. someone mentioned a max range for the 30-30 as 200 yds and i would agree with that but would add only in the hands of a skilled marksmen, the 30-30 runs out of steam after 150 yrds. at 150 yrds it still has over 1000 ft # of energy which most hunters have agreed is the ideal min. for an effective clean kill on whitetail. at 200 yrds the 30-30 is well below the 1,000 ft#'s but is still lethal if put in the right place, not to mention bullet drop on the 30-30 takes a plunge after 150 yrds.
if all the deer in this country that has been killed by a 30-30 could stand up at once i think it would knock the earth off it's axis so take my comments with a grain of salt. placement is the key 99.99% of the time.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-08-2006, 07:44 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
I think that a rifleman must shoot both of them. All that a 30-30 will do,a 30-06 will do "harder". Not better! I love both rounds for what they are. Do not ask me to choose which is better please.

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-11-2006, 06:17 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renthorin
I hear people talk about them as if they are interchangable but I always though the 30-06 was more powerful???

Is one better for deer hunting?
Do people target shoot with them?
How much is ammo?

Thanks and sorry for the stupid newbie questions...
I'll break it down like this for you to understand OK!

The 30-30 Wnchester caliber is a very good whitetail deer gun up to a 100 yards with a 170 grain bullet and it gives 11 pounds of felt recoil to the shooters upper torso. It does well on black bear that are under the 250lb weight up close over bait.

The 30-06 is a 300 yard plus caliber rifle, with a very large spectrum of bullet weights to choose from, especially if you hand load. This enables a hunter to harvest a variety of big game animals. It can be used on ground-hogs and has taken the biggest of Brown Bears using a 220 grain bullet.
Most hunters use the 150 or 165 grain bullet for deer, 180 grian for elk or moose and 200 or 220 grain for bear. It gives around 22 pounds of recoil to the body.

I have personally seen bull elk taken with the 30-06 at over 400 yards down range, Hoback Junction, Wyoming. The Old Soldier (30-06) used to be referred to, as the caliber for hunting all game in North America. One caliber that can do it all!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-11-2006, 06:24 AM
Renthorin's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 157
Cool. Thanks for the replies guys (that rhymes).

I am going to shoot both the 30-30 and the 30-06 in a few weeks so I will get to feel the recoil which is pretty much what will be the deciding factor for my purchase.

I want to target shoot at great distance (more than my 10/22) and possibly get into deer hunting. I don’t imagine I will ever hunt anything larger than deer.

If the recoil isn’t horrible I will get the 30-06 so I have room to grow if I want to bigger critters.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-11-2006, 07:27 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 461
I have both and have killed deer with both. I used to hunt with an 06 exclusively. But now the 30-30 seems to be in my hand during most of my hunts (16" trapper w/iron sights). It is light, fast and accurate out to 200 yd.
For informal target shooting the 30-30 is fun and cheap to shoot. But I enjoy shooting my 06 Garand at Garand matches and rattle battles. Military surplus ammo is inexpensive for these guns. For precision shooting with an 06 a bolt gun with premium ammo or reloads would be the way to go. But your wallet will start to flinch along your shoulder.
I guess they type of rifle you want would dictate which caliber you choose. Lever action 06s are expensive and the little savages in 30-30 are getting harder to find. I know of no semi auto 30-30s. And both are available in single shot and pump action.
A good compromise if you a considering a bolt gun would be a 308. It is vary close to the 06 in power, in most cases less recoil, probably easer to obtain accuracy, and the ammo cost about the same plus military surplus is available for plinking.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-12-2006, 08:41 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 379
Lynn....Excuse me but I beg to differ with YOU on the practical yardage of the 30-30 Winchester caliber. I have never known any gun writer to put into print that the 30-30 was a "200 Yard big game caliber"

Perhaps you made a type error and if so please disregard this post, as I don't wish to wipe a dead horse understand. However, when those that ask questions, want to know the precise answer I believe they should get the correct answer everytime out the gate.

The 30-30 for all practical purposes is a 100 yard rifle for whitetail deer...I'll even go the 125 marker with a 170 grain bullet, (broadside presentation) which by the way has a sectional density of .256 verses the 150 grain bullets .S .D of a 226.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-12-2006, 08:59 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 2,697
Not intending to offend here, but will speak my mind.

I have shot a 30-06 for years, in many rifles, but when I shot my first 30-30 load (factory 170's) in a Marlin 336, 6 years ago, I was very surprised at the heavy recoil, since lighter recoil is one of the few supposed benefits to this old timer cartridge. Maybe it's the Marlin stock design, but I think this touted recoil advantage is a bogus distinction.

If you love the lever action, get a 35 Remington chambered rifle. That's a cartridge that offers real performance advantages over the 30-30 in the same excellent handling rifles.

Unless your into rifle nostaglia and old cartridges (as I am), I wouldn't even look at the 30-30. The 30-06 is an old timer too, but a generation newer and much more versatile, practical and capable and easier to handload.

I realize I've opened myself up to the inquisition for blasphemy...but, so be it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-12-2006, 09:42 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by leverite
If you love the lever action, get a 35 Remington chambered rifle. That's a cartridge that offers real performance advantages over the 30-30 in the same excellent handling rifles.
Or, he could get a 1895 Winchester in 30-06
__________________
Wild Sheep Federation - Life Member
OVIS/Grand Slam Club - Life Member
Safari Club International - Life Member
National Rifle Association - Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-13-2006, 04:12 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 2,697
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyeska338
Or, he could get a 1895 Winchester in 30-06
Or to make this another, classic discussion...how about a 308 or 358 in BLR?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-13-2006, 10:26 AM
MikeG's Avatar
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozy
Lynn....Excuse me but I beg to differ with YOU on the practical yardage of the 30-30 Winchester caliber. I have never known any gun writer to put into print that the 30-30 was a "200 Yard big game caliber"

Perhaps you made a type error and if so please disregard this post, as I don't wish to wipe a dead horse understand. However, when those that ask questions, want to know the precise answer I believe they should get the correct answer everytime out the gate.

The 30-30 for all practical purposes is a 100 yard rifle for whitetail deer...I'll even go the 125 marker with a 170 grain bullet, (broadside presentation) which by the way has a sectional density of .256 verses the 150 grain bullets .S .D of a 226.
Why would you say only 100 yards? Point-blank range for either common .30-30 bullet should be between 175 and 200 yards.

Heck I figure my pistol-cartridge lever guns (.44 mag and .45 colt) are easily good to 150, point-blank.....
__________________
MikeG

Quote:
Originally Posted by faucettb
Welcome to the forum. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-13-2006, 12:20 PM
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 19,717
The stout recoil behind the 30-30 is because of the stock drop on leverguns. The same cartridge in a bolt or pump gun is far less noticable. Used to have both a Marlin 336C and a Savage 340 bolt gun. The same load would kick like a mule in the Marlin and be fairly tame in the Savage.

My problem shooting past a deer sized critter past 100 yds is the open sights get pretty crude for proper sight placement. A scope would make a difference and extend the range a bit.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
NRA Certified Police Firearms Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NAHC Life Member

"Firearms only have two enemies - rust and politicans" author unknown
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-13-2006, 12:40 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozy
The 30-30 for all practical purposes is a 100 yard rifle for whitetail deer...I'll even go the 125 marker with a 170 grain bullet, (broadside presentation) which by the way has a sectional density of .256 verses the 150 grain bullets .S .D of a 226.

Book larnin' may make you smart, but experience will make you wise. 40 years' experience of the .30-30 on deer has shown me quite conclusively that if you can place your shots at 200 yards, the .30-30 is completely capable of cleanly taking deer at that range.

Would I carry a .30-30 if my typical shot were at 200 yards? No, I'd certainly step up a bit. But my typical shots are at 200 or less -- usually much less -- so I'm fine with it, thanks. For deer, a good shot with a .30-30 is every bit as well-armed as a good shot with a .30-06. A bad shot is not well-armed with a cannon.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Marlin 336 (30.30) Chrony Data tlightburn Marlin 336 Lever Guns 1 06-18-2006 10:19 PM
Bought a couple of Winchesters today! WFR Winchester 94 Lever Guns 16 02-18-2006 11:14 AM
Seeking Advice for Contender 35 Rem and 30-30Win toolsrcool Single-Shot Handguns 17 12-14-2005 11:55 AM
marlin 336 30.30 questions semi Marlin 336 Lever Guns 9 03-07-2004 12:53 PM
Light load for Marlin 30.30 Bernie Leverguns and Their Cartridges (General) 3 10-31-2001 01:47 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:45 PM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2