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  #1  
Old 09-29-2006, 06:45 AM
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338 ultra mag versus 338 win mag


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I am deciding between a Remington .338 Ultra Mag 700 XCR and a Weatherby Vanguard .338 Win Mag. Wanted to get everyone thoughts on the difference between the ultra and the win mag and not so much on the guns. Thanks.
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:43 AM
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Welcome to the forum CB. That's a good question. Here's my thoughts. I've shot and hunted with an 8mm Rem mag for a bunch of years so take this with the thought that I'm magnum oriented.

If in 1979 I'd had the choices that are out there today I'd certianly go for the 338 Ultra-mag. I bought the 8 because it would shot as flat as most 300 mags on the market with a 220 grain bullet and carry more energy to game at long ranges. At the time I had a choice between it and the 338 or the 340 Weatherby.

Here we are at this time and place with a cartridge that will shoot a 225 grain bullet as flat as most 300 mags on the market. It would be my choice hands down.

Remember you can always load it down to 338 Win velocities if you want lighter loads. As far as guns go Both are excellent choices.

What ever you get put a limbsaver or one of the new gel tek recoil pads on it and I suggest a lead sled for sighting in. That's what I use now for all sighting in duties.

Again welcome to the forum.
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:35 AM
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Depends on how much recoil you can stand.

The .338WM stomps me so bad, can't even begin to think what a UM would do!
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Old 09-29-2006, 04:46 PM
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60 ft/lbs of recoil anyone ?
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Old 09-29-2006, 04:52 PM
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kdub has a good point, if your at all recoil sensitive the big magnums can shake up a persons world. Friend next door shoots a 300 ultra-mag. This is a Rem BDL in a wood stock and a 26 inch bbl. Can't say what the gun weighs, but would guess around 9 or just a little more loaded.

Found that it was about the same to shoot as my BDL in 8 mag. I had the oppertunity to shoot a lot of high recoiling guns when I was in Alaska. Spent many a day sighting in customers bear and moose guns.

Liked the 340 Weatherby (that's the same case as the big 8mm mag necked out to 338). Found that the 378 and 460 weatherby was taxing once passed ten rounds to get sighted in.

You've got to like the big magnums and be somewhat recoil insensitive to become profecient with these big boomers. It's not like sitting down with a 243 and plinking ground hogs all day.

On the plus side large caliber bullets at around 3000 fps extend the killing range an extra hundred or hundred and fifty yards over standard calibers.

Guess the only thing I can say is God bless Elmer Kieth and Col Boddington. Oh wear both ear plugs and muffs.
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Old 09-29-2006, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRanch
I am deciding between a Remington .338 Ultra Mag 700 XCR and a Weatherby Vanguard .338 Win Mag. Wanted to get everyone thoughts on the difference between the ultra and the win mag and not so much on the guns. Thanks.
I hunted for years with the 300 Win mag! I then saw that I could handle the recoil of the .338 Win mag 20 years later and 50 pounds on my body. Now what I mean by handle is shoot the .338 Win mag, just as accurately as the 300 Win mag. which delt me out 28 lbs to 30 lbs of felt recoil using a 180 grain bullet.

The .338 Win mag with a 225 grain bullet give out 34 pounds of felt recoil to my body. Not to much difference in numbers but bear in mind that 5 pounds of additional recoil is not just a tap on the shoulder when at the shooting bench sighting in the rifle.

So now comes the .338 Ultra Mag which will dish you out the sum of 60 plus pounds of felt recoil!!! YES, that is no mistake, almost twice as much thumping, it kicks like a MISSOURI MULE savvy. I very much doubt that you will be able to handle this caliber, with as much accuracy as other calibers you have shot. It is a tuff nut to crack at the bench or when shooting in field positions down range.

The .338 Ultra Mag, is a bonifide 600 yard elk killer, with no problem. However, only if you can hit your target down range. I shoot my wildcat .338/300 Ultra Mag with a recoil pad and a Decelorator pad on the butt end of the stock and it still bangs me up, to where my accuracy long range is effected a bunch. Just food for thought OK.

Yes, you can down load it some but not to the tune that it will shoot like a very mild .338 mag load. My advice is to try the .338 Win mag first and see how you like shooting it, then try to immagine twice that recoil to your body.......OUCH!!! You can then make your decision.

Last edited by Cozy; 09-29-2006 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:23 PM
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600 yds, yikes. Just drive out to a big open plain, setup a table and a lead sled, and plink'em off...lol
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:41 PM
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CB,
Not sure of your experience level (and I'm not claiming to have loads of it either), or what game you're after (or is it just targets?) but both the 338 WM and 338 UM are very capable 400+ yard cartridges on game with the right bullet choices.

I would say that few people have the experience with their guns/cartridges to be shooting at game at or beyond those distances, however. Even fewer have the discipline/ethics to know when NOT to take such a shot! Too many variables of wind, moving animal, lack of a good rest, range estimation, on-and-on.

The 8mm RM, 340 Wby and 338 UM (and others) extend lethal killing range beyond the 338 WM's capabilities. Whether the shooter and conditions can make use of that extra potential is the big question. If just banging plates/targets, those ethical considerations don't exist. Good luck in your search; it should be enjoyable if nothing else!
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:09 PM
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Well here's where I gotta say with a good muzzle brake and a good recoil pad this is the place it's needed. With better than 40% recoil reduction these big boomers become really shootable.

Some of the new brakes can be turned off and on for use at the range if other folks are there, some come that screw on and off and can be replaced with a muzzle cover for range shooting.

A hunting friend just picked up a 7mm STW and it has one of the better brakes installed. Best I can say is feels like a 7mm-08. Loud, yes, accurate, yes, pleasent to shoot, yes.

Another thing that helps with these higher recoiling long range rifles is a thumb hole stock. For some reason that grip on the thumb hole not only increases shootability, but taking some of the recoil in the palm of the hand lessons felt recoil some.
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Old 09-30-2006, 03:40 AM
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I'm in agreement with some of the other guys here. If you can handle the recoil that's your choice but does the 338 UM offer the power advantage enough over the tried and true 338 Win Mag to endure almost twice the recoil? I personally don't think it's a good trade off. If you're going to really endure it for performance sake, then why not the 338-378 Weatherby or 8.59 Titan?

I agree totally with Shawn Crea. Most don't have the discipline NOT to take a shot. Too many believe that because they have a cartridge that can make the shot, so can they. And far too many are attempting shots they have no business attempting. You gotta put time in at the range to be a good shot at longer distances and know your gun and it's ballistics. And esp how wind affect it at longer ranges.
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2006, 03:50 AM
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I have a .338 WM, and my hunting pard has the .338 UM. When he first bought the .338 UM, he fired about 10 rounds off of the bench, and put it away. It had rocked his world. I shot one, and that was enough. He then sent his rifle, a Rem 700, to Shilen for one of their muzzle brakes, and it tamed the .338 UM right down, BUT it was so loud that when hunting I made darn sure that I was no where near it when he shot at game. It was and is incredibly painful when shot without hearing protection. I would recommend two things. First if you like the .338 UM, get one. Shoot a few rounds and if it's too much send it out for a brake. Second, after the brake is installed, buy a set of Walkers Game Ears, 'cause if you don't, you'll be deaf after shooting a few rounds without hearing protection. To be quite honest, for all game in North America except the Brown bear, the .300 WM with 200 gr bullets will do everything that the .338 WM will do. The .338 UM is a big step up, but you pay for it. You have to decide if it's worth the extra pain, er... I mean performance.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2006, 08:10 AM
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Why stop at the .338 RUM ? Why not the .375 RUM ? *evil grin*
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Old 09-30-2006, 09:50 AM
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How accurate this is, I dont know. I used the recoil calculator in the "Point Blank" program. I also just used reloading data from Hogdon and Nosler. Did it for fun anyway. This is assuming all guns weighed 8.5lbs.


.300 Win Mag
H1000 81gr compressed
180gr @ 3042fps- 32.12 ft/lbs

.300 RUM
Retumbo 100.5gr compressed
180gr @ 3300fps- 44.09 ft/lbs

.325 WSM
RL 19 69gr
200gr @ 2964fps- 31.36 ft/lbs

.338 Win Mag
H4831 75.5gr Compressed
210gr @ 2888fps - 34.45 ft/lbs

.338 RUM
H1000 102.0C
210gr @ 3153fps - 48.58 ft/lbs

.338-378 Wby Mag
RETUMBO 123.0C
210gr @ 3362fps - 61.48 ft/lbs

.375 H&H
H4350 81.5 Compressed
300gr @ 2645fps - 51.61 ft/lbs

.375 RUM
H4350 90.0
300gr @ 2733fps - 57.59 ft/lbs
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Last edited by Tang; 09-30-2006 at 09:53 AM.
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2006, 10:17 AM
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If the 338RUM was chamberein simething other than a light hunting rifle I'd have one. The XCR only weighs 7 5/8 pounds while my SenderoSFII in 300 RUM comes in at 8.5. w/o scope and shells. While I agree with faucettb, the 338 RUM is not for personas of small frame or low apin tolerance.

The 338 Win. mag is a very goog cartridge and probably more in tune with what you want. If you decide to get a 338 RUM don't shoot it from the bench without some sort of rest like fuacettbs, my "Bob'sled or a factory built one. If you get off to the wrong start it will always "treat you bad"

RJ
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  #15  
Old 10-01-2006, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRanch
I am deciding between a Remington .338 Ultra Mag 700 XCR and a Weatherby Vanguard .338 Win Mag. Wanted to get everyone thoughts on the difference between the ultra and the win mag and not so much on the guns. Thanks.
CB you obviously want a .338 caliber rifle! Nothing wrong in that OK. However, what are your plans for taking big game animals? I think you would be better served with the .338 Win mag and if that seems to much gun recoil wise, then drop on down to the newer Federal .325WSM or the .338/06 caliber, both of these have far less RECOIL!!!

Weatherby was making rifles for the .339/06 caliber, it will do anything the .338 Win mag will do out to 300 yards and above all, have less recoil to tolerate. The newer .325WSM is getting some good press and I did see a program on TV where it was being used on African plains game with good success.

I have both the 300 Ultra mag and a wildcat .338/300 Ultra mag. Trust me they are bears, when it comes to dishing out recoil....NOT pleasant to shoot!!! I may as well be shooting my .416 Rem. Mag off the bench. I would NOT put a muzzle brake on any such caliber, just to loud and your hearing as well as others is at stake always.

Last edited by Cozy; 10-01-2006 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:47 AM
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Thanks for all of the message. You have given me a lot to think about. To answer some of the questions. I have hunted elk for years with my 7mm and have had no problems. Down in Texas, i use my 25-06 that i absolutely love, no kick, quiet on the ears, and very flat shooting. When i was talking to my guide, he said that the 7mm is a little light for some shots that may approach 400 yards. He said that we may be taking shots across a large meadow where stalking will be impossible. He suggested a 300 win mag.

I agree that a 300 win mag would be fine, but i thought since i already have a 7mm and if i am going to spend the money that i should a bigger gun that i could use someday if i hunt in Alaska or Africa.

Couple more questions? Is there a break that goes on to the Rem Ultra Mag? What about the boss on the Browning win mag...does it really work?







Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozy
CB you obviously want a .338 caliber rifle! Nothing wrong in that OK. However, what are your plans for taking big game animals? I think you would be better served with the .338 Win mag and if that seems to much gun recoil wise, then drop on down to the newer Federal .325WSM or the .338/06 caliber, both of these have far less RECOIL!!!

Weatherby was making rifles for the .339/06 caliber, it will do anything the .338 Win mag will do out to 300 yards and above all, have less recoil to tolerate. The newer .325WSM is getting some good press and I did see a program on TV where it was being used on African plains game with good success.

I have both the 300 Ultra mag and a wildcat .338/300 Ultra mag. Trust me they are bears, when it comes to dishing out recoil....NOT pleasant to shoot!!! I may as well be shooting my .416 Rem. Mag off the bench. I would NOT put a muzzle brake on any such caliber, just to loud and your hearing as well as others is at stake always.
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRanch
Thanks for all of the message. You have given me a lot to think about. To answer some of the questions. I have hunted elk for years with my 7mm and have had no problems. Down in Texas, i use my 25-06 that i absolutely love, no kick, quiet on the ears, and very flat shooting. When i was talking to my guide, he said that the 7mm is a little light for some shots that may approach 400 yards. He said that we may be taking shots across a large meadow where stalking will be impossible. He suggested a 300 win mag.

I agree that a 300 win mag would be fine, but i thought since i already have a 7mm and if i am going to spend the money that i should a bigger gun that i could use someday if i hunt in Alaska or Africa.

Couple more questions? Is there a break that goes on to the Rem Ultra Mag? What about the boss on the Browning win mag...does it really work?
Being I already shoot a great elk rifle, the rem 8mm mag I'd only be looking at two rifles that are now on the market. Either the 338 rem ultra-mag or the 338-378 Weatherby. I like the fact that the Weatherby can push a 250 grainer at over 3100 fps.

There are several good brakes on the market that will fit on a 338. Most all of them require being installed by a the company that markets them or a gunsmith. They almost all require threading the barrel and reaming to the selected caliber. I was just looking at one that gave a 40% recoil reduction and could just be turned off for quiet use (if you can consider either of the cartridges I mentioned quiet) at the range. Darn if I can remember the name of the mfg.

I've got to say as well as some of the new brakes work, I just hate the lump of metal on the end of the barrel. I've always preferred Larry Kellys magna-port. It cuts up to 20% of the recoil and in my guns is not as loud as the spiral hole add on brakes. The four port job does an excellent job on my 8 mag.

I've shot a couple of Boss equiped rifles and didn't see a lot of recoil reduction. I did see good accuracy from them, that's what their designed to do, to tune the barrel harmonics to give better accuracy.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:40 AM
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Cool Brand new 325

I just bought the new Browning 325, as a package deal with a 4200 elite scope for $719. After weighing all the facts that you guys gave me. having the knock down of the 338 and less kick then the 300 mag, it just felt like the right one to get for the next step up from my 30-06; for hunting Moose/Caribou/ and bear. I just got all my reloading stuff from Nosler factory, seeing how they are right up the road (really cheap), and I got the Accubond 200 grn, like I shoot through my 30-06. Since you all have been a world of information so far, do you have any suggestions on breaking it in.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:50 AM
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Enjoy it ! I love my .325 , I like being the odd ball


Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DURBINATOR View Post
I just bought the new Browning 325, as a package deal with a 4200 elite scope for $719. After weighing all the facts that you guys gave me. having the knock down of the 338 and less kick then the 300 mag, it just felt like the right one to get for the next step up from my 30-06; for hunting Moose/Caribou/ and bear. I just got all my reloading stuff from Nosler factory, seeing how they are right up the road (really cheap), and I got the Accubond 200 grn, like I shoot through my 30-06. Since you all have been a world of information so far, do you have any suggestions on breaking it in.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:15 PM
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I was looking to buy one of the same two guns, stuck with the same decision problems for over a year. I ended up after shooting a couple of rounds of each from friends guns, buying the 325 shooting a 200 grn accubond. I am pushing 3000fps and hitting a 1" pattern at 100yrds. i have no doubt that I will be able to take what ever North american game I shoot at. so, before you buy either, try what I did. Go shoot the 325, and by the way with the scope it only weighs 8.7 lbs.
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