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  #1  
Old 05-15-2007, 09:19 AM
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7mm Remington magnum


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How well does the 7mm magnum preform on big game? I hear a lot of people that sware buy the 7mm remington magnum. Most people say it is realy flat shooting and hard hitting. Now I am going to say something evil "on paper" the. 300 win mag is just a flat shooting. there is only about one tenth of an inch diffrence between the trajectories of both calibers in similar bullet dezignes and weights. However the 7mm has a slightly higher sectional density. The 300 winchester mag has it stomped in the velocity and energy department at least at the muzzle. Does the 7mm have a higher downrange retained enegy? Is there anything that makes the 7mm magnums shine? Just cureous

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  #2  
Old 05-15-2007, 10:12 AM
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Zapzoo, My info shows:
7mm Rem Mag
200 yard zero
170 grain bullet
BC .353
V 2425fps
E 2221
Bullets availible(used): 120..175 grain

.300 Win Mag
200 yard zero
180 grain bullet
BC .401
V 2454
E 2406
Bullets Availible: 150..200 grain

Now the .300 has the edge, But at 300 yards:
.300 Mag:
V 2034
E 1653

7mm Mag:
V 2185
E 1804.

So they each have there strong points!
The 7mm Rem Mag has much less felt recoil and shooters are less apt to flinch. Jim
Here is a good link to compare cartridges.
http://www.norma.cc/sida/eng/index.html
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2007, 11:20 AM
recoil junky's Avatar
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Tha't's why I decided to get a 300RUM. I think it compliments the 7mm Rem mag.

My 7mag in 700 Classic, has done the deed on at least 10 elk (I'd have to back and count) and there are others on this site that can probaly say the same thing I will say-------------THE 7 MAG WILL KILL ELK DEAD!!! with the right bullet and proper bullet placement it is a darn good elk rifle. I've stuck with 150 grain Sierra Game Kings because of their excellant accuracy and they hold up pretty well on elk. I want to try some Nosler Accubonds in it also after shooting some in my 300RUM, they look like they'll be plenty accurate.

The 7 mag is easier to feed also. It doesn't take as much powder as a 300 Win mag.

Mine also gets to go pdog and rockchuck hunting so I use it in the off season too.

jpattersonnh, what bullet are you using in your 7 mag and what is the muzzle velocity?

RJ
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  #4  
Old 05-15-2007, 06:02 PM
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Well the data on my 175's comes from the man who loaded them, and got me started reloading, Dwayne Sutten. He has passed now, but I still have about 22 cartridges that he reloaded for me. 175 grain Sierra SBT, 49.5 grains IMR4320, 2695fps. I will use these bullets and than think about loading some, **** I can sight in my new scope and still have 15 years of hunting left, and Dwayne will still be there. I use 4320 and 4064 for 140 grain bullets, not much of a difference there. There are plenty of powders that will get another 100 to 200 fps, but These are accurate and get the job done well. I hit a buck w/ a 175 about 10 years ago, it was like the Hammer of Thor. It was 150 yards or so, nice easy shot. He walked out onto an old logging road. He just stood there a few seconds, and fell over. Through and through, next to no damage. I like the 175's better than the 140's. Much less damage. Maybe 160's are the next to try.

140 grain ballistic tips are lots of fun on Wood Chucks. They don't explode like your Pdogs, just kinda get blown in 2.
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2007, 06:25 PM
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I personally like the 300 better, but a lot of elk have been taken with 7mm Rem mag. The big draw to the 7mm Rem mag is recoil is less than the 300.

I shot a 308 Norma mag for a lot of years. It's basically a twin in performance to the 300 Win mag and using 180 grain bullets. My hunting partner used the 7mm Rem mag for over 20 years and with 175 grain bullets has harvested lots of elk.

There are some flatter shooting 7mm's on the market now. The 7mm STW is the big full length 8mm Rem mag case necked to 7mm. There's the 7mm Remington Ultra-mag also. These all are capable of pushing bullets much faster and flatter than the 300 Win mag. Of course there's also some ultra flat shooting 300 mags. My buddy that has a 7mm STW shoots his 300 Ultra-mag with 180 grain bullets at 3380 fps. That's really flat.

Keep in mind that any time you shoot light bullets meat damage is excessive to the point of being silly. Any of the magnums work better on game animals with heavy for the caliber bullets.
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  #6  
Old 05-15-2007, 07:14 PM
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With mine, I shot a very large buck last year with a 150gr Sierra Hot-core style bullet. Dead is dead, but it made a ridiculous hole. That's the only game I have shot with that rifle (as it is new). But based on that experience, I'm going to premium bonded bullets from here on out. I actually bought the gun for Elk and look forward to trying 160gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws for that purpose.

Last edited by Bird Dog II; 05-15-2007 at 07:17 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-16-2007, 08:05 AM
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Gents,

My 7 is a precision rig, and it does a real good job putting them close together, and with loads its likes it is legitmately one hole accuratte. Its a heavy piece, 26" bull barrell, so I don't use it much for general hunting applications, more so setting up in a big field when I am hunting on the ground.

Satisified with it in all respects, except for one, and that it does not achieve advertised velocities, actually not even close. As such, its long range potential espiecally with light bullets is not nearly as encouraging as it should be. Example, 67.5 grains of Re22 140 Nosler yielded 3025 fps, when the book claims over 3300. 58.0 grains Re22 with the 139 Horn produced 3050 or so, CCI 250s used without. My maxed out Re 19 loads just reached 3000 fps, several did less. Before I owned a chronograph, I thought these loads were all rockets, and have killed several at between 275-350 yards- so 3000 was certainly adequate.

On this particular session, I was also shooting my infamous 270 with 130 grain bullets from both Speer, Sierra and Winchester, and was easily getting the same speeds and sub moa accuracy, with 3 lbs less gun, 10 grains less powder, 2 inches less barrel, and allot less recoil. I left the session thinking "why am I shooting this 7 again"?

Generally speaking, I am normally very satisified with 3000fps, although with this one rifle I would like to be able to reach out a little farther than with the general use hunting arms, and am considering a few tactics in accomplishing this.

My data reflects that Re22 is the slowest powder of the light bullet combinations, and my load density is just over the 80% range. It seems counter- intuitive to load a quicker powder for this bullet, if we are loading for velocity, but I may do just that to discount it as a possibly. The second option is to go with a lighter for wieght Barnes, 120/130, put plenty of fuel behind it, and see how fast it can be pushed. Or lastly, It seems to me that 3000 ought to be in range with heavier slugs, and if that is where the 140s are topping out, why the heck not? I'm looking really hard at the Sierra 168 as the standard setter, and then developing a sister load for the 160s from everybody else to hunt with.

Anyway, this is my experience with this round, I'm looking forward to the dialog.

Best to you fellows.

Steve
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  #8  
Old 05-16-2007, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpattersonnh
Zapzoo, My info shows:
7mm Rem Mag
200 yard zero
170 grain bullet
BC .353
V 2425fps
E 2221
Bullets availible(used): 120..175 grain

.300 Win Mag
200 yard zero
180 grain bullet
BC .401
V 2454
E 2406
Bullets Availible: 150..200 grain
JP, I must me missing something here. I'm trying to figure out how the 180 grn 300 WM bullet that starts with a higher velocity and has a higher BC retains less velocity than the 7mm bullet with a slower initial BC and velocity?

BTW..Zapzoo, IMO, both the 7mm and 300 are great proven rounds.
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  #9  
Old 05-16-2007, 09:47 AM
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I have owned both the 300 Win mag and the 7mm Rem mag. I still own the 7mm if that tells you anything. The 300 mag used to loosen the fillings in my teeth when I shot it. Heck, I guess I am just getting old.
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1Garand
JP, I must me missing something here. I'm trying to figure out how the 180 grn 300 WM bullet that starts with a higher velocity and has a higher BC retains less velocity than the 7mm bullet with a slower initial BC and velocity?

BTW..Zapzoo, IMO, both the 7mm and 300 are great proven rounds.

M1, Maybe it is do to the fact that almost all 7mm bullets are boat tail. If you use the link from Norma you can see for yourself. I was curious about that also, but it is true. Jim
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  #11  
Old 05-16-2007, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehunter35
Gents, Satisified with it in all respects, except for one, and that it does not achieve advertised velocities, actually not even close. As such, its long range potential espiecally with light bullets is not nearly as encouraging as it should be. Example, 67.5 grains of Re22 140 Nosler yielded 3025 fps, when the book claims over 3300. 58.0 grains Re22 with the 139 Horn produced 3050 or so, CCI 250s used without. Steve
Steve, my trusty Hornady manual lists the top Re-22 and Re-19 loads at 3100fps for 139/140s. Granted, that is with a 24" barrel, but that is plenty of barrel for those loads. 3300 fps sounds unrealistic IMO.

Before I got one, I never could understand the hype about 7mm Mags, when 150gr .30-06 velocities would equal 150gr 7mm Rem Mag loads when equal barrel lengths were employed. Now that I have one, I do appreciate the high BC and SD. Like you said, they seem to flat work way far out, regardless of what the chrono says.

Mine is a 7mm WSM which has a higher pressure, but is really identical ballistically for all practical purposes.
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2007, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpattersonnh
M1, Maybe it is do to the fact that almost all 7mm bullets are boat tail. If you use the link from Norma you can see for yourself. I was curious about that also, but it is true. Jim

Being a boattail shouldn't make a difference, the BC is the BC and it seems like that goes against the physics of it. It got me curious and I checked out that link and ran the bullets you posted in my ballistics software and looked up some manufacturer data on his BC loads they produced:

With a 200 yrds zero:

7mm RM - 170 grn bullet .353 BC 3038 MV
*Most manufacturers list (Rem, Fed, Win, Horn) list the 175 grn RM @ 2860-2900 fps.

400 2047 fps 1582fpe -20.83 inches low
500 1835 fps 1270fpe -42.94 inches low

300 WM - 180 grn bullet .400 BC 3100 MV

400 2203 fps 1939 fpe -18.85" low
500 2006 fps 1608 fpe -38.46" low

Going with manufacturer ballistics with these high BC bullets, I used the 160 because of it’s higher BC and energy retention:

7mm RM

Federal 160 grn accubond .531 BC, 2900 MV with 200 yard zero

400 yrds 2237 fps 1777 fpe -19.9” low
500 yrds 2086 fps 1546 fpe - 39.9" low

300 WM

Remington 180 Scirocco .507 BC, 2960 MV with 200 yard zero

400 yrds 2259 fps 2039 fpe -19.3”
500 yrds 2100 fps 1762 fpe -38.7


Nearly identical ballistics, but the 300 WM holds the energy advantage but in reality, not a whole lot of difference. I think either would do a fine job and the 7m with less recoil. Now bring in one of the RUM's, Lazzeroni's or 30-378 Weatherby and should see quite a difference.
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  #13  
Old 05-17-2007, 08:31 AM
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The Ruger M77 in 7 RM that I bought new in 1972 is still in the vault and bears the scars of many a hunting trip. My older brother, who used to be my hunting partner, tagged it "Ol' Knock'um Stiff". The 160 gr Nosler Partitions is it's favorite load.

Don't shoot it much anymore, as the 6.5's have taken sway in my shooting habits. Still a fine big game rifle, though. Took it's share of whitetail, mule deer and elk, with an occassional coyote thrown in.
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2007, 10:05 AM
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Another good subject, My closest friend and hunting partner of over 30 years shoots a Krico bolt action rifle in the 7mm and for a lot of years I heard it called the wasted magnum. I know the ballistics show that the 300 win mag. is a better choice but my buddy has some health problems and he can handle the 7's recoil but can not take the 300, so I think that there is a place for this magnum. I just recently quit shooting my 375 H & H and went back to the 270 win. but had originally thought of going to the 7. My nephew and I both bought CDLs last fall and he went with the 7 and is more than happy.
We are loading 162 gr. bt in the bonded hornady and the performance has been great.
We just bought some 160 gr nosler part. and will be working on a load for this bullet.
We are hoping to get drawn for moose this fall and we will be going for bull elk and I have full confidence that the 7 will do the job.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2007, 10:46 AM
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I recently sold my 300 in favor of my 7mm Rem Mag.

I'm not recoil shy and my favorite bullet for the 300 was the 220 grain Nosler Semi Spitzer but if I'm going to take abuse I want it to be from a bigger diameter bullet. The 7mm with full loads of Retumbo under 175 grain Speer Grand Slam bullets is a lot more enjoyable to shoot and packs a heck of a wallop.
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  #16  
Old 05-19-2007, 09:20 PM
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I'm definately a 7mm rem.mag man. I've shot pretty well every calibre around at one time or another, and find that the 7 will do what I want it to do to any critter I'm ever likely to run into in N. America, without beating th e sh-t out of my shoulder.
Everything I've shot with it so far (moose, elk, deer), has dropped in it's tracks with a 160 gr Nosler Accubond in front of H4131E sc powder.
Still building loads for my new one, and so far like what I'm seeing.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2007, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashhole
I recently sold my 300 in favor of my 7mm Rem Mag.

I'm not recoil shy and my favorite bullet for the 300 was the 220 grain Nosler Semi Spitzer but if I'm going to take abuse I want it to be from a bigger diameter bullet. The 7mm with full loads of Retumbo under 175 grain Speer Grand Slam bullets is a lot more enjoyable to shoot and packs a heck of a wallop.
That's the one reason I went to the 8mm Rem mag from my old 308 Norma mag. I found the bigger diameter bullet killed as well as the 300's and was kinder to the meat.

My hunting partner has used the 7mm Rem mag for well over 20 years and his favorite load is using the 175 Speer Grand Slam. I can't tell you how many elk and deer he's knocked over with that load.
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2007, 05:06 AM
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The great part about or sport is the options. Lots of options. If a .308 is comfortable, great. If a 8mm Mag is your thing, great. It really does not matter what caliber is used for most hunting in the lower 48. If you feel comfortable and confident using a caliber w/ well a constructed, accurate bullet your chance of success on your hunt has increased. Here in the North East I have seen folks use .243 to 35 Whelan for Deer, and 6.5 and up on Moose. They all ended up in the freezer. So it comes down to range, where you are hunting. I am over gunned in the East using a 7mm mag for deer, but in the Midwest the range is needed for wary game. I still use my 7mm here in the East, it is a proven system and gives me the option of a real long shot, which I have taken with it on a few occasions here. When sighted in at 200 yards it does have an effective kill zone from 0 to 250 yards. That makes me feel very confident about any shot I may take.
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:29 PM
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Back in the 60's I knew an old indian chap in northern BC who took his moose every year with a single shot 22. This guy lived around the Alexis Creek area, and was well known as a guy who always put meat on the table.
He's just sit where he knew they'd come out, put one in the boiler room, wait a few minutes, put another in the boiler room, and eventually the moose would drown in his own blood.
Like anything else, I guess a hunter who's a good shot with a small bore will out hunt an impatient one with a canon. One of the biggest drawbacks to bringing home the meat is that too many folks get lazy and just stay in their vehicles driving the logging roads.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2007, 05:26 PM
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Keep in mind phreddy that some of us are unable to get into the woods on foot anymore and staying in a vehicle on the logging roads is sometimes the only way we can hunt.

It's certainly not as satisfactory as getting a few miles off the roads and being in the woods, but the only way some of us folks can still partake of those pesky deer and elk. In fact I've often found myself talking to myself praying for that nice buck to step out into the road.

I've been doing the road hunt thing now since I became handi-capped five years ago. As far as the 22 thing goes I remember back in the early 60's helping feed the family by taking a deer in our back yard with the 22 rifle. I've got to say I sure like venison.

I've also developed an ability to find a nice place with a good view of some open countryside or clear cut and just wait for some younger folks to move the deer into my line of sight.

I still do a lot of varmint hunting, but getting to my stands now mean that I use stands that aren't far off the farm or logging roads. A couple of hundred feet are about my limit.

One thing for sure is there are a lot more folks out there hunting now than there used to be. Some of our elk camps back of Pierce and Headquarters Idaho have truck loads of porta potties delivered for all the campers and camp trailers parked on every square inch of open space.

It's got so the woods are so full of ATV's that it's a continual buzz and you can see them everywhere putting along or going full bore looking for something to shoot.

I like what jpattersonnh says about diversity. There's plenty of choices out there today and seemingly more so every year as to caliber and cartridge available.

I've got several buddies that hunt with the 7mm Rem mag and have piled up a huge kill record with it. I like the 8mm Rem mag better, but have a dandy little 280 Rem mountain rifle for deer hunting that's a kick in the behind to carry and shoot. All my rifles have scopes and have since I found how much easier it was for me to shoot with optics, of course with my eyesight going south optics are now pretty much of a must.

All in all I kinda like the road hunting. Sure makes getting the game out of the woods easier. At this point in the steep country I live and hunt in I don't even take shots at deer on the downhill side of the road. I'd much rather shoot them on the uphill side then just back the pickup up to the bank and with one kick have them fall in the bed. Curse the ones whom won't cooperate.
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