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  #1  
Old 09-15-2007, 07:50 PM
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Weatherby Vanguard Trigger


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....is nasty. Cant say anything good about it. It has creep. It is gritty. It is heavy.

Ok, any suggestions out there? Has anyone here worked on the adjustable trigger? I hear that alot of the trigger woes can be cleared up by this.

Otherwise, I love the new rifle and cartridge!
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Last edited by Perferator; 09-15-2007 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 09-15-2007, 08:50 PM
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Take the barreled action out of the stock and see if it's adjustable. If it is you can fiddle with it yourself or take it to a gunsmith and have it adjusted. As bad as it sounds it doesn't seem like you can hurt it by adjusting it. The worse that can happen is you will make it worse and have to have a smith work on it or replace it with an aftermarket trigger.
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2007, 02:41 PM
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Timneys are fairly inexpensive, and adjustable. Fairlyt easy to put in, I did my by myself on my Stevens, I highly recommend them.
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2007, 08:12 PM
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I'm thinking Timney. Great suggestion, thanx for the pointer.

After searching the internet I've found comments from those that have tried to adjust the trigger and it's common to get the trigger adjusted just right to where it feels decent only to discover safety malfunctions.....so it's back to the creepy/gritty.

What, 85clams?? That's not bad. My gunsmith friend told me to go the Timney route, too as he cant do it cheaper.

Thanx guys!

(ps/edit) I tried to adjust the trigger by backing the screw out as far it should go and it did make the trigger pull somewhat (noticeably) lighter but the creep and sand-in-the-sear feel is still there.
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Last edited by Perferator; 09-16-2007 at 09:45 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2007, 05:51 PM
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The trigger in my Vanguard is almost exactly like my Timney in the O3-A3 and adjust the same. Of course they are both pretty old now, like me, but unless they have changed the Vanguard will adjust pretty well. Just don't get the idea either one is a target trigger, they aren't, they are very good hunting triggers.

Adjusted to 3-4# and with just a tad of creep they are good and safe too.

If you want less pull weight get a Jewell.
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2007, 04:51 PM
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Last I heard, the Vangaurd trigger from Timney was discontinued. You might find one on ebay, unless it falls under their new policy of not selling certain gun parts.

On my Vangaurd, I got tired of trying to find a Timney and just had a gunsmith clean it up. Charged me $75.00 and was well worth it. Trigger is crisp, clean, and breaks right at about 3lbs.
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2007, 08:51 AM
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I've adjusted both screws on my vanguard. The trigger pull is improved and suitable to my tastes but the creep/grit is still there. There is still one more procedure I want to try before sending it out to a gunny. I hadnt heard anything about timney disco'ing vanguard triggers. Was this recent? I had Midway's '06 Master Catalog and there is one listed for 85.00 or so. Must be a recent decision?
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  #8  
Old 10-04-2007, 07:59 PM
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Timney is still listing it on their website. MidwayUSA is listing it out of stock with availability expected in mid-December
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2007, 09:31 PM
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Perferator, I had the same exact problem several years back with a Vanguard (7RemMag). Id adjust it and it would not stay adjusted, plus I could never get the "creep" completly out of it. I finally found a company that sold Timneys for Vanguards (I believe it was Natchez out of TN), best thing I ever did for that rifle. I put it in myself with some judicious filing to clear the safety. Mine is a 3 position unit that allows bolt opening while on safe, as well as a position that "locks" the bolt. I didn't have to adjust the trigger after installation since mine was delivered with a 3 1/2 pound pull. That installation made the rifle a "Keeper". Good luck!
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2007, 01:34 PM
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I've tested the trigger after again adjusting the front screw.....it's liveable. Good enough for hunting. The Timney will wait behind the dies, bullets and other stuff for reloading as I'm just about out of ammo and need to work some loads for this new beauty. No way this trigger will last until next spring.

JB, thanx for the info. I cant imagine Timney not keeping up with stock for this gun seeing that all vanguards pretty much have the trigger problem.
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faucettb
Take the barreled action out of the stock and see if it's adjustable. If it is you can fiddle with it yourself or take it to a gunsmith and have it adjusted. As bad as it sounds it doesn't seem like you can hurt it by adjusting it. The worse that can happen is you will make it worse and have to have a smith work on it or replace it with an aftermarket trigger.

No, the worst that can happen is that you end up with an unreliable, unstable trigger. Many of the older, now not available because unknowlegdeable gun owners who thought they knew about gunsmithing and made thier firearms unsafe, were adjustable for both trigger pull weight and travel. Those triggers are not available any more on off the shelf rifles.

But, you know, I think too much is put on triggers. I fired a lot of military rifles in competition and they had abismyl two stage triggers and we could get consisten accuracy from them. I don't think of myself as a good shot. I'm mediocre at best. I can outshoot many on the range, though, over the course of 50 or 60 rounds in a day. I generally shoot 5 shot groupings at the longest range available. The range I use most is 330 yards (300 metres). I don't shoot off sandbags unless testing a handload because the sand bags are heavy and I don't carry them in the field.

It is nice when the equipment I use is tuned but that isn't a Vangard. Vangards and most other off the shelf rifles give satisfactory HUNTING accuracy. What will you gain by spending $100 on an after market trigger. Consistently possibly 1/4 MOA over an average of 100 rounds maybe? The rifle I am using presently is a SAKO. It has an acceptable trigger and gives good "hunting" accuracy. If I do my part it is 5 rounds sub MOA CONSISTENTLY off sand bags! It also costs 3X a Vangard. I also has a Zeiss scope on top soon to be Kales.

Spend your money on a better rifle.

Last edited by BC Hunter; 10-05-2007 at 08:32 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2007, 01:02 PM
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I guess it's the total package that adds up to good performance in the field. The better your rifle can be off the bench (your part included) the better you will be when it counts......out there.

I hate gritty creep, though. That is something I cant tolerate.
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2007, 05:05 PM
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Have you ever used an European style double set or single set trigger??? Try looking at CZ rifles with a single set trigger. You'll be converted in one shot.
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2007, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perferator
....is nasty. Cant say anything good about it. It has creep. It is gritty. It is heavy.

Ok, any suggestions out there? Has anyone here worked on the adjustable trigger? I hear that alot of the trigger woes can be cleared up by this.

Otherwise, I love the new rifle and cartridge!
I have a Vanguard in 30-06 and I too played with the trigger, but still couldn't get that annoying creep out of the thing.
I spent $75 and bought a Timney. The directions were easy to follow. (Note) it did require me to take off a little bit of wood forward of the safety about 2" down from the top of the safety inside of the stock in order to push the safety forward.
This is very easy with a drimel tool. Heck, I needed a drimel anyway!
There has never been any question about a Vanguard's accuracy. Now, its even better with the custom trigger.

It amazes me why American manufacturers don't go the route of Sako/Tikka and put on a trigger that is so easy, you don't need to take the barreled action out of the stock to complete the job of a trigger adjustment.
Anyway, good luck with your project.
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  #15  
Old 10-07-2007, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC Hunter
Have you ever used an European style double set or single set trigger??? Try looking at CZ rifles with a single set trigger. You'll be converted in one shot.
If CZ offered a rifle in .257weatherby mag I'd have considered that. I bought the rifle for the cartridge....it just plain rocks.
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  #16  
Old 10-12-2007, 05:24 AM
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JARD offers a very nice trigger-12 ounce pull.
You can stone your trigger. Take dimension readings of the top of the trigger. I would go very easy after reaching the .070 mark-
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  #17  
Old 11-12-2007, 03:57 PM
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Canjar makes a trigger for the Vanguard which is a very fine trigger. I didn't know Jard made a trigger, good to know.
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:10 AM
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i had mine done by a gunsmith its very light and crisp now,i heard they grind a bit off somwhere , also had the bedding done on my stock which was causing problems and causing the action to move back in the stock and affect the free floating.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2007, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perferator
....is nasty. Cant say anything good about it. It has creep. It is gritty. It is heavy.

Ok, any suggestions out there? Has anyone here worked on the adjustable trigger? I hear that alot of the trigger woes can be cleared up by this.

Otherwise, I love the new rifle and cartridge!
Hey there. I do a lot of work on weatherby Vanguards (or Howa equivalents). Why? Because for dirt cheap you can get a great shooter with great features! I have 3 of them myself.

Now, considering this is "at your own risk" if you choose to do what I do, here's how to sort out the Vanguard trigger...

1) decide how ambitious you're going to be! If you want to clear out the factory grease and replace it with something else(I do - it attracts grit) and polish the engagement surfaces, you probably know what you're doing and don't need the rest of these ideas - so I'll leave that there.

2) assuming you choose not to do 1) above, you're going to modify as is without disassembly. You can get quite good result doing this too. First get it out of the stock (duh)

3) clamp in a padded vise, trigger facing up

4) the screw to the rear facing the tang will be your adjustment for take-up/creep. The front screw will adjust pull weight, AFTER you've adjusted the reaer screw. I mess with the rearward screw first (NOTE: the lock nuts are METRIC You can use a pair of very small pliers CAREFULLY if you can't/don't want to find metric wrenches that small - I had to buy pliers for this purpose

5) with a very small flat blade screw driver, adjust the rear screw to get rid of all the takeup aftyer loosening the lock nut - you should have the action cocked during this procedure. If you go too far the firing pin will be released (you did unload the rifle first, right?). Once you establish there is no takeup, or you've got it where the firing pin doesn't drop, you may be ready to tighten up this adjustment. Special notes: you may not be able to get rid of ALL the creep depending on the individual rifle, but you will get rid of >95% of it in my experience (unless you get lucky and you reach 100%) - I always back the adjustment screw off 1/4 turn from the point at which the firing pin lets go, irrespective of the creep for safety. YOU MUST ESTABLISH WHAT YOU CONSIDER SAFE.

6) now it's time to start on adjusting the pull weight using the front adjustment screw which would be next to the magazine well, but you got rid of that in disassembly. Go through the same procedure. You should get yourself a digital pull guage (or borrow one) to figure it out. The funny thing about Howa triggers is they won't let you go too far. If you try and make the pull weight really low, the safety won't function! That is, you won't be able to move the lever. So, as you adjust, pull the safety back and forth at judicious moments - when it won't engage, back off at least 1/4 adjustment screw turn - alternatively stop when you're at the pull weight you desire. Lock the adjustment in place.

7) with the action still in the vise, repeatedly cock the action and test the firing and the safety. I like to put a little loctite (609?) not the usual stuff, to ensure nothing moves later on.

8) Test the function of the safety thoroughly. Here's what I do. After vise testing maybe a dozen times, I restock the action. Then, with thin carpet over concrete, I drop the cocked rifle (no ammo rememeber) butt first onto the floor from 18-24 inches about half a dozen times. If it makes it past this, I reclamp in the vise, and then whack it (don't go nuts here) from both sides with a rubber mallet a few times. If it doesn't release after all this, I dry fire it again a few times, and if I'm happy, that's it.

Be aware, you may not get down to the pull weight you want using this method. The best I've ever gotten to is 2.2 pounds. Many triggers won't adjust past 3 unless you start with point 1 above. You should be able to get a beautifully crisp 3.5 pounds without any problems.

Alternatively, you could pay $80 for a Timney (adjustable, but 3.5 pounds out of the box), but they can be hard to find at times.

Hope this helps!

PS sometimes it is possible to get ourself in a situation where the pull weight is where you want it, but the safety won't enagge no matter how far you back it the front screw off - in this situation, back the rearward screw out fractionally until the safety will engage.
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Last edited by prattusa; 11-20-2007 at 06:28 AM.
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