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  #1  
Old 12-21-2008, 05:53 AM
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Win 70 from 300 win mag to 300 H&H Mag


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I am new here, but a long time winchester levergun shooter. I am left-handed, so I haven't been much of a bolt-guy, that is until I bought a win mod 70 LH 30-06 which was one of the last ones made by the custom shop. It is both beautiful and accurate. Now I'm a model 70 fan, but LH rifles are scarce. Ive always wanted a 300 H&H mag, and a 375 H&H mag for a safari hunt that Im saving up for. (Ive read lots af articles, and only these calibers in a model 70 will cure my ill now). I know that winchester made the 375 in LH in the 2003 up catalogs, in what may have been a magnum length action???? Sorry, im soo winded, but I wanted to give a little background. Can I convert a 300 win mag to 300 H&H with just a barrel change on the long action? Will I need to lengthen magazene box? Am i forgetting anything? Anybody know where to find a LH 375 H&H mod 70?
Thanx for any help,
Tim
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2008, 06:17 AM
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Welcome to the forum Tim. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.

I'm not a Winchester guy so perhaps some of our members whom work with them can help out here. The 300 Win mag, 7mm Rem mag, 264 Win mag and the 338 Win mag were all built to cycle thru a 270/30-06 length action. The 300 H&H, 375 H&H and 300 Weatherby are all quite a bit longer.
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2008, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus8 View Post
Can I convert a 300 win mag to 300 H&H with just a barrel change on the long action?
No. The .300 Win Mag is on the standard Model 70 long action with a magnum bolt face. To do a straight re-barrel you'll need to find a Model 70 express length action. These were commonly in 7mm STW, 300 Weatherby, 375 H&H and...........yep............300 H&H. You could, no doubt, pick up a right-handed 300 H&H Model 70 for about the same price (or less) than it's going to take to convert yours. A lefty might be tough.

Quote:
Will I need to lengthen magazene box?
Yes.

Quote:
Am i forgetting anything?
You will definitely have to mill the boltstop back and may have to worki on the feed ramp.


Quote:
Anybody know where to find a LH 375 H&H mod 70?
Thanx for any help,
Tim
Try Gunbroker.com. It probably won't be cheap. Best bet is to look for a push-feed over a CRF gun.
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2008, 06:52 AM
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to convert the 300WM to a legal dangerous game rifle, consider the 416 taylor. lots of folks touting the new hornady/ruger cartridges but i believe the case rim diameter is smaller so that could be a problem. another beauty to consider is the 9.3 Brenneke, though that and the 375 H&H are marginal for buffalo, hippo, elephant, etc. of all, i would go with the Taylor, info about which you can find in this forum by search.
if the big animals are your dream, also consider the 458WM, which is totally suitable and effective inspite of what you may read by the 'experts'.
the conversion you're talking about won't be cheap and you may find it more economical to buy another rifle, even if its a push feed rifle, even though there are several on this forum who'll tell you a push feed rifle is unsuitable for dangerous game.

Last edited by richard scott; 12-21-2008 at 07:01 AM.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2008, 07:30 AM
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Other posters have pretty much covered what I thought...and I learned a few things.

I agree with what has been said in that building one will be slow and expensive.

IMO one would be better off to keep an eye on some of the firearms auction sites and wait for what one wants to come up. Left handed H&H actions do come up now and then. I saw one in 375 H&H and as I recall it was reasonably priced.

This will probably take about as long as a build and be cheaper as well.
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2008, 01:24 PM
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You might consider the CZ African rifle. CRF, Mauser copy, under a grand for the least expensive and comes in all the favorite dangerous game calibers. Probably less expensive than finding a Win 70 and having the work done. Most guys that do that will have a minimum of 2500 and it's more likely to be in the 3500-4500 range.

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=50
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2008, 03:31 PM
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I have a good friend who, years ago just rechambered his Model 70 300 win mag to a 300 Weatherby ? At that time I was not interested in model 70's so I didn't pay much attention to it except to say that he killed a big truckload of game with that rifle - he may have had the long action to start with
The CZ is definitely a good choice to consider and don't totally ignore the Rugers - controlled round feed is "all the talk of the town" and has always been but to be truthful I got to thinking about it and I personally have never had an A Bolt falter and the only push feed I have heard of having trouble is the Remington 700 (and a Sako extractor takes care of that trouble) - Left hand does create a challenge but not an unsurmountable one
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2008, 04:06 PM
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In the pre-64 model 70's, the action length was the same for all calibers, from 22 Hornet to 375 H&H. For the shorter cartridges, a stop was placed on the bolt. The length was standard for the 30-06 & 270. For the 300 H&H and the 375 H&H they had to mill out the bottom of front of the receiver in order to make it possible for the receiver to accomodate a longer magazine box, and to enable the cartridges to feed up into the chamber. It is a common mis-conception that the magnum action was longer - but it is not. Note that the 300 Winchester Magnum has the same overall length as the 30-06. Perhaps the strongest driving force to develop the 300 Winchester Magnum was the desire to cut production costs. The modifications to the action for the 300 H&H and 375 H&H were expensive, and they were losing money on each rifle made.

Later, when Winchester came out with their model 70 XTR models they switched to a push feed, but still used the same old proceedure to modify a 30-06 length action in order to accomodate the 300 H&H and 375 H&H cartridges. I have a 300 H&H XTR and this is the slickest and fastest bolt action rifle I've ever owned. The 300 H&H and 375 H&H have long tapered cases that feed from magazine to chamber with the greatest of ease.

If you wish to have a left hand 300 H&H model 70 your best chance would be with the post 64 models. Winchester never made a left hand pre -64 model 70. A good gunsmith should be able to modify a left hand 30-06 length action to accomodate the longer cartridge, but I suspect that it won't be cheap.

Last edited by 8iowa; 12-21-2008 at 04:08 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2008, 03:07 AM
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Thank You 8iowa that is what I needed to know. I was hoping the magnum action was only a modified long action. I can't see going on an Afracan Safari with anything other then a Model 70. (Its like driving a Chevy when your a Ford guy.) Ive shot all my deer with a Win. 64 in 32WS. So the rifle is part of the experience. Im a lefty, and shoot south paw, so I pay premium either way, If I'm buying the gun, Im saving for the best. The good thing is my 13YO son shoots left handed also. Ill keep watching for a Left handed Safari in 375H&H, but I haven't seen one in a year on Gunbroker or Guns America. If anybody comes across one, please e-mail me at [email protected]. I know a lot of guys probably bought them for that once-in-a-lifetime hunt, and might want to sell.
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2008, 04:38 AM
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Ill put up a new post to see if anyone has one they want to sell.
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2008, 04:43 AM
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Exodus8:

Everyone deserves to have at least one nice custom rifle during their life. Maybe this is your time.

A custom gunsmith like Roger Biesen, www.biesen.com is very familiar with model 70's and no doubt has encountered the "left hand question" many times. His father, Al Biesen, made custom model 70's for Jack O'Connor.

Best of luck to you.
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2008, 05:07 AM
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Ill check him out, Thank You, Tim
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  #13  
Old 09-27-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus8 View Post
Thank You 8iowa that is what I needed to know. I was hoping the magnum action was only a modified long action. I can't see going on an Afracan Safari with anything other then a Model 70. (Its like driving a Chevy when your a Ford guy.) Ive shot all my deer with a Win. 64 in 32WS. So the rifle is part of the experience. Im a lefty, and shoot south paw, so I pay premium either way, If I'm buying the gun, Im saving for the best. The good thing is my 13YO son shoots left handed also. Ill keep watching for a Left handed Safari in 375H&H, but I haven't seen one in a year on Gunbroker or Guns America. If anybody comes across one, please e-mail me at [email protected]. I know a lot of guys probably bought them for that once-in-a-lifetime hunt, and might want to sell.
old thread but there's an easier way to accomplish this

If you get a magnum in 30 caliber, get a 300 Weatherby Magnum. You can have a 300 Win Mag rechambered to 300 Weatherby most likely, using a reamer. You can fire 300 H&H or 300 Win Mag ammo, in a 300 Weatherby. It's like having 3 rifles in one. The previous XTR post is true. I have owned (2) Winchester M70 XTR's in 300 Weatherby Mag. They are smoother, faster, slicker, and lighter than a Weatherby Mark V, and also $200-$300 cheaper. (when compared to a USA or German Mark V).

If you don't care about buying a Japanese made gun, get a Weatherby Vanguard in 300 Weatherby Magnum . You can buy those for $350-$500 on the used market. And you can shoot 300 H&H or 300 Win Mag in them.

no different than shooting 38 special, in a 357 magnum- because the case headpaces on the belt, not the shoulder- just like the 38 special headspaces on the rim. The caliber is the same, so the brass just fire forms to the chamber.
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  #14  
Old 09-27-2012, 02:21 PM
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[QUOTE=CaptainCrossman;637385]
If you get a magnum in 30 caliber, get a 300 Weatherby Magnum. You can have a 300 Win Mag rechambered to 300 Weatherby most likely, using a reamer. You can fire 300 H&H or 300 Win Mag ammo, in a 300 Weatherby. It's like having 3 rifles in one. [QUOTE]

It seems to me the difference in case overall length between the 300H&H and .300 Roy could present a problem. There is .035 difference in trim lengths. Depending on the chamber a person could jam the H&H case into the Roy chamber, crimping the bullet into place and drastically raise pressures. Don't know if this is an issue but the possibility exists.
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Last edited by MontyF; 09-27-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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  #15  
Old 09-27-2012, 03:24 PM
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text deleted

Last edited by rondo; 09-27-2012 at 03:31 PM. Reason: double post
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  #16  
Old 09-27-2012, 03:25 PM
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You can shoot .300 Win in a .300 Wby? Never thought of that. I'm not trying it.

I had a 70 XTR in .300 Win. Must have been around a 1990 model. I recall it had a spacer at the back of the mag box to take up the difference between an H&H length case and the Win Mag. Change that and the bolt stop to allow the bolt to travel back the same amount farther and I think you'd be set for long magnums. Seems like the feed lips would be different between a 300 H&H and about anything else though.

First box of ammo I put thru my rifle had a single round of 7mm Rem Mag in it. (Apparently happened at the gun store cuz they had a box of 7mm RM with a round of 300 Win mag in it on the shelf. They gave me that round for nothing. ). I didn't notice till this neckless case came out of the chamber after firing. I spent a few days looking for the case neck before I noticed the headstamp on the case. Didn't hit the target but didn't seem to hurt anything either. I live near Douglas Barrels and they air guaged it and pronounced it as good as it ever was.

Last edited by rondo; 09-27-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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  #17  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:48 PM
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You can shoot .300 Win in a .300 Wby? Never thought of that. I'm not trying it.
FWIW, in our desert here, I came across a bunch of brass (10-15) laying on the ground, headstamped 300 WM, with a really, really short neck, and double radiused shoulders of the Weatherby. Someone had obviously fired 300 WM in the 300 Wby chamber. There was no blood, body parts, or rifle parts laying around. But I wouldn't purposely do it!
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2012, 09:30 PM
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[QUOTE=Exodus8;392001]
Quote:
Now I'm a model 70 fan, but LH rifles are scarce. Ive always wanted a 300 H&H mag, and a 375 H&H mag for a safari hunt that Im saving up for. (Ive read lots af articles, and only these calibers in a model 70 will cure my ill now).
Craig Boddington converted a pre-64 Model 70, in 375 H&H, to left hand and used this rifle extensively. . I read the article he wrote in "The American Rifleman", a few years back about his rifle and love for the 375 cartridge. . Appartently the rifle is for sale.

Scroll down a tad.

Craig Boddington's left-hand pre-64 375 H&H Winchester Rifles - Modern Bolt/Auto/Single > Model 70 > Pre-64 for sale, gun classifieds or gun auction from Montana Handgunner. Buy or bid on this Craig Boddington's left-hand pre-64 375 H&H in the catego

Rod
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2012, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn Crea View Post
FWIW, in our desert here, I came across a bunch of brass (10-15) laying on the ground, headstamped 300 WM, with a really, really short neck, and double radiused shoulders of the Weatherby. Someone had obviously fired 300 WM in the 300 Wby chamber. There was no blood, body parts, or rifle parts laying around. But I wouldn't purposely do it!
Gives a new meaning to freebore !!!
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2012, 04:19 PM
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So much bad info in this thread it makes my head hurt.

First - pre-64 M70's were ALMOST all the same. The 300/375 H&H's DID have metal removed, different followers and different magazine boxes. Yes, one COULD have a 375 built from a non 375, but its going to be expensive and there HAS to be metal removed.

Post-64 rifles until the early 80's (I think) WERE the same rifle from .223 to 375 H&H. Spacers, magazines and obviously, bolt faces were different. Action was the same.

In post-80's M70's a true short action was finally made. And after that, there was short, and long. There was no express, no "magnum", no extra long actions. The long action was the long action, 30-06 or 375. Again, bolt faces, magazines, followers. Simple changes and when they brought back the CRF M70's in the Classic line, even a 30-06 could very well be turned into a 375 H&H because you were able to open the bolt face up rather easily.

So yes, you could buy a 300 Win Mag and rebarrel to 300 H&H or 300 Wby. You could rechamber from 300 Win to 300 Wby, but not H&H because of the taper and narrower measurements of the long smooth case.

Next, should NEVER fire 300 Win Mag in a 300 Wby chamber. That is just stupid and dangerous to EVER suggest, especially on the internet where there is a chance someone could find this thread through web searches. H&H in a Wby....not smart. IF your rifle is set up to head space off the belt and not the shoulder, which nearly every single rifle now does, even belted mags, you MIGHT be able to get away with it. But again, its a very stupid idea, no way to be nice about that.
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