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  #1  
Old 02-01-2009, 10:25 AM
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Older BSA 30 06


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Hi Folks,
New member here from Northwestern Ontario, Canada. Have come across your forum many times and is a wealth of info. I enjoy hunting and am a part time back yard benchrest shooter with 308.

Have recently brought home my late Grandfathers BSA from B.C. and have been searching for info on it since but have come up empty handed. Starting to think it is the only in existence. The rifle was purchased brand new in 1948 and as far as I know the same for the scope. My father has recently passed this on to me, which in turn, I will do for my son when the day comes and after of course a few deer and moose.

I am hoping some of you folks can tell me what model it actually is, type of action and maybe some history. Had never heard of BSA till Dad pulled this out and dusted it off. It is registered as a CF2 but does not look like any of the few pictures I have seen. The rear of the bolt has more of a REM 700 look to it.

The markings on the receiver are,
Ser# Hxxxx (just 4 digits)
What looks like N&C 41 GRS~220 BULLET
BV BP NP . 30/06 2.50" (the initials have crowns above them)
BSA emblem on top and MADE IN ENGLAND

If anyone is familiar with the scope, that would be great to!
The scope is a Redfield which says,
2x-7x
REDFIELD (a symbol which looks like a capital T with half the top missing) TUBE
With WEAVOR PIVOT MOUNT 1000" rings.
It has very fine cross hairs.

Cheers, Bob

[IMG][/IMG]

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  #2  
Old 02-01-2009, 10:33 AM
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Welcome to the forum BSA. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.

That one was built on a P-14 or P-17 Infield action. They are one of the strongest actions of the wartime surplus actions. Lots of folks used them for magnum conversions because of the strength and weight in the 50's and 60's.

That's a great old gun and some beautiful wood. If the barrel is good it should be shooting into the next century.

BSA was an English gun making company and built rifles first on military surplus actions and then on an action of their own design. Many were sold by Herter's til they went out of the gun business. Run a Google search on Birmingham Small Arms and you should come up with some more info.
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2009, 11:46 AM
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That "T" with the missing top on the scope stands for 1" tube. Redfield was quite proud of the fact their tubes were the one inch diameter rather than the older 3/4" and 7/8" tubes of other manufactures. I have a couple of them with the 1" designation.
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  #4  
Old 02-01-2009, 02:14 PM
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beautiful rifle!!!! they even reworked the bulky magazine... that would have been a premium rifle in it's day and in reality still is today.
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  #5  
Old 02-01-2009, 04:16 PM
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Thanks so far Folks,
Have googled Birmingham and P17, M17. Like some kind of top secret stuff cause there is no info to be found and I have spent daily hours over the past few weeks. Some info on the newer rifles (late sixties-seventies) but nothing this era. Just a big black hole.

Have seen a gun with the bulge in the forearm, but this model has not been reworked. Off the shelf, new rifle right from factory. Grandma (late) picked it up for him back then from probably Sears or Eatons. Her favorite places, remember her dragging me through them when I was young and of all things on one of those body harnesses with a leash! Just try and do that now days....So I wandered off now and again, no big deal...right?

The "T" is only missing 1/2 its top, Like an upside down L. Your right, it is 1". Do you know what model it is?

It is in good shape, everthing as new except the normal wear marks from packing in the bush and usual truck ride buffing. Can't wait to give it a try.

Hopefully someone can tell me exactly what it is, or point me in the right direction. Would like to know before the info is gone for good or if it even exists.

Cheers, Bob
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  #6  
Old 02-01-2009, 04:52 PM
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This is the outfit that built your rifle.

http://www.bsaguns.co.uk/?ID=26

Here's a little History of BSA.

BSA was founded in 1861 in the Gun Quarter, Birmingham, England by fourteen gunsmiths of the Birmingham Small Arms Trade Association, who had together supplied arms to the British government during the Crimean War. The company branched out as the gun trade declined; in the 1870s they manufactured the Otto Dicycle, in the 1880s the company began to manufacture bicycles and in 1903 the company's first experimental motorcycle was constructed. Their first prototype automobile was produced in 1907 and the next year the company sold 150 automobiles. By 1909 they were offering a number of motorcycles for sale and in 1910 BSA purchased the British Daimler Company for its automobile engines.

World War One

During World War I, the company returned to arms manufacture and greatly expanded its operations. BSA produced rifles, Lewis guns, shells, motorcycles and other vehicles for the war effort.


Inter-War years

1935 magazine advert for the BSA range of motorcycles and 3-wheeler cars


In 1920, it bought some of the assets of the Aircraft Manufacturing Company (Airco), which had built many important aircraft during the war but had become bankrupt due to the falloff in orders once hostilities ceased. BSA did not go into aviation; the chief designer Geoffrey de Havilland of Airco founded the de Havilland company.
As well as the Daimler car range, BSA re-entered the car market under their own name in 1921 with a V-twin engined light car followed by four-cylinder models up to 1926 when the name was temporarily dropped. In 1929 a new range of 3 and 4 wheel cars appeared and production of these continued until 1936.
In the 1930s the board of directors authorised expenditure on bringing their arms-making equipment back to use - it had been stored at company expense since the end of the Great War in the belief that BSA might again be called upon to perform its patriotic duty.


In 1931 the Lanchester Motor Company was acquired and production of their cars transferred to Daimler's Coventry works.


World War Two

By World War II, BSA had 67 factories and was well positioned to meet the demand for guns and ammunition. BSA operations were also dispersed to other companies under licence. During the war it produced over a million Lee-Enfield rifles, Sten sub machine guns and half a million Browning machine guns. Wartime demands included motorcycle production. 126,000 BSA M20 motorcycles were supplied to the armed forces, from 1937 (and later until 1950) plus military bicycles including the folding paratrooper bicycle. At the same time, the Daimler concern was producing armoured cars.
Post war

Sir Bernard Docker was chairman of BSA until 1951 with James Leek CBE Managing Director from 1939, after which Jack Sangster became Managing Director. Post-war, BSA continued to expand the range of metal goods it produced. The BSA Group bought Triumph Motorcycles in 1951, making them the largest producer of motorcycles in the world. The cycle and motor cycle interests of Ariel, Sunbeam and New Hudson were also acquired. Most of these had belonged to Sangster.
In 1960 Daimler was sold off to Jaguar.
The BSA bicycle division, BSA Cycles Ltd., was sold to Raleigh in 1956. Bicycles bearing the BSA name are currently manufactured and distributed within India by TI Cycles of India.


The production of guns bearing the BSA name continued beyond the 1957 sale of the bicycle division, but in 1986 BSA Guns was liquidated, the assets bought and renamed BSA Guns (UK) Ltd. The company continues to make air rifles and shotguns, and are still based in Small Heath in Birmingham.






This is the action your rifle was built from and yes it probably is a factory rifle, BSA was using surplus actions and building rifles on them.


http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl19-e.htm

This is a P-17 Eddystone action and if you look at the 4th pix down you'll see your safety. The dog leg bolt was changed to a straight bolt and the Ears for the rear sight ground off and either new bottom metal used or the old bottom metal straightened. This was a commen way to customize the surplus actions, both the P-14 and the P-17.



Hope that helps a little.
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2009, 05:07 PM
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This is what your rifle use to be: An Enfield Pattern 14 or most likely pattern 17, being it is a standard bolt face.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle

Your rifle has had the rear sight ears cut off and contoured, Trigger plate straightened, bolt handle straightened, looks to have the original trigger.

These rifles were made by Remington, Eddystone, Winchester.

I have a Eddystone target rifle which has had the action reworked similar to yours. My old Gunsmith has done this to hundreds of these Pattern 14 and 17 rifles over the years, back in the day when it was cheaper to convert a surplus military action, instead of getting a new rifle.

The explaination as to why it says BSA on the action is most likely due to the fact that BSA did conversions post WW2 rifles. these rifles started off as regular rifles and were remanufactured and sporterized at the factory.

That would explain how this rifle was bought new in this condition.
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  #8  
Old 02-01-2009, 05:13 PM
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I had that rifle's twin until a couple of years ago. Not the same stock, but the same style and with the same nice grain showing (good wood).

If you were to remove the scope and mounts, would find under the rear mount the BSA logo. It's on a steel "plug" they used to cover the recess you have once you grind down a P17's rear sight base. Would also notice that the magazine well was alterted from the pot-belly military...it's been cut, traigthend, and welded. Very nice work.


Suspect they are new barrels, not governemnt issue barrels. Mine was in 30-06. Should find British proofs on it. Mine also had a load stamped on it, something liked 220gr./ XX gr. of cordite or something like that. Unless they reworked, re finished, and reproofed the issue 30-06 barrel (which they may have).

What I think is that the early 1940's were a tough time, converting back from a war economy wasn't nearly as easy for the UK as it was for the US. SO rather than make new actions, they converted what they had on hand. Had the people with the skills, what they didn't have was the modern factories...so they converted these the "old school" way.

Nice rifles...shot well....and were pretty well hand made conversion done quite nicely. In today's world, would cost 4 figures for a gunsmith to be bothered to do that kind of conversion.
---------
Wanted to mention, have seen a 3rd. This one had a bit more "bling" when new, but was well worn when i saw it. Was in .318 Express and evidnetly had spend the 1950's and 1960's in some far off big game hunters paradise (Africa probably).
------
Realized that I miss the rifle...miss the time, energy, and hunting fields it went to more.

Switched open rear sights for a fold down Winchester. Had zeroed the open iron sights for a cast bullet small game load (115gr. lead at about 900fps). Had the base of a Lyman apatrue always attached to the reciever, and the blade of the apature in a butt trap. That sight would slip on, the open sight fold down, and I was read with 220gr. JSP. My scope was an old Weaver K4, which was set for 150gr. bullets. so long as i had a coil to turn the scope mount screws, was ready with any of the 3 sights and 3 loads.

Even today, for a guy with the time and game fields to hunt in, could still "do it all" with one good 30-06.

Last edited by ribbonstone; 02-01-2009 at 05:24 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-01-2009, 07:24 PM
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Check out this link for some interesting info, including pages from a 1951 Parker-Hale catalog selling these rifles when they were new.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=320875


Just about a month ago I bought one of these rifles in .303. I had always wanted a .303 British hunting rifle but had no interest in a miliary rifle or a sporterized one. Stumbled on the BSA at a gun show and it followed me home. Mine is the "E" model with schnable forend, whereas yours appears to be the "D".
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:08 AM
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This is great information and exactly what I was hoping to find.
Thank you all for taking the time.
Cheers, Bob
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:35 PM
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BSA 30-06 too

Hi - Keith here from Fort St. John in NorthEastern BC. I also have a BSA 30-06 Rifle my father bought for me about 20 years ago. I have recently started reloading and using the rifle much more than previously and am having trouble getting groupings after the first 4 or 5 shots. I am looking into glass or aluminum block bedding and wonder if anyone else out there has had similar issues with a BSA. The info on my rifle is Serial number 7R1004 , 30/06 , 2.494" BNP 18Tons per (picture of a box)" It says BSA Guns Ltd. England but also has an emblem with BNP stamped on it. I was told by my father that the seller of the gun reffered to it as a sportster model. It has a bolt action similar to my friends Sako. I would love more info on the gun as I have had difficulty finding much.
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  #12  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:54 PM
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You need to find a photo hosting site to post some pics of the firearm. Your elgibility to do so without hosting here on the forum is 25 posts and a couple weeks of membership. Really hard to tell what you have unless the members can peek at it.
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:46 AM
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Thanks

Thanks for the tip- I will get some pics posted
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