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  #1  
Old 04-08-2009, 07:25 AM
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.243 v/s .308 recoil / kick


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OK... I've been thinking that a .243 or .25-06 was the way to go. Today, I see a link posted with pictures of rounds side by side for comparison. It's here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges

I noticed that the .308 is much shorter than the .270 that I currently have, or the .30-06, and besides the actual bullet, the cases look to be close to size to the .243. The .25-06 on the other hand, looks like the same case length as my .270, and not much skinnier from the picture.

It's hard to determine from pictures, but now it has me thinking....

Would a .308 kick less or about the same as a .243 or .25-06, and more importantly - less than my .270???

All the best,
Glenn
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  #2  
Old 04-08-2009, 07:48 AM
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The .30-06 case spawned the .25-06, .270, .280 Rem, .338-06, .35 Whelen, and countless others.

The .308 case spawned the .243, .260 Rem, 7mm-08, .358 Win, and I don't know what all.

More powder = more recoil, all things being equal....

But, the biggest factor in recoil is bullet weight. 100gr. in a .243, vs. 150gr. in a .308, you'll have a difference in recoil. The .243 and .25-06 will be closer in recoil because they use similar bullet weights.

Hope that helps. There is also a recoil calculator on the main Beartooth page.
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  #3  
Old 04-08-2009, 08:30 AM
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there's one more thing that seems (at least to me) to make a big difference in felt recoil, and that's how "Hot" the loads are....if you are going to shoot nothing but factory ammo, and you are recoil sensitive, then you would want to think about the smaller caliber bullets, (.243 -.25-06) because they will recoil less.....if, however, you are going to reload for this rifle, then you can somewhat offset this by downloading or just not loading to the Max.....and you can also use lighter bullets, so the felt recoil can wind up being a lot less, like Mike stated above.....as a matter of interest, the factory .270 is loaded to higher pressures than the 0-6, so they tend to whack you harder when using the same weight bullets ....

if it was me, given the choices you were thinking about, I would try a .243 .... there is a lot of factory loaded ammo available, with many different bullets and some "Light Magnum" loads available also (Hornaday) :

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=48d51629675b4b963076c1cbbe28820e&page= shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=f8cdc21a7d92383f4cac817f a4c99e7a

the .243 is a very popular cartridge, and will probably remain so for a long time, so it's a good bet ammo will be available too... when loaded with good bullets, whether factory or handloaded, it is very effective on deer-sized game out to 250 yds or so, and can be loaded with lighter bullets for varmint hunting as well.....the recoil is light compared to a .270, and quite manageble for young folks just getting acquainted with shooting..... pretty nice cartridge for all around, providing you're not going to hunt the big nasties with it....

to answer your other question on the .308 kick....it will kick about the same as your .270, when using the same weight bullets, mayhap just a tad less .... the difference would, I believe, be hardly noticeable....
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Last edited by oloutlaw; 04-08-2009 at 08:38 AM.
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  #4  
Old 04-08-2009, 12:06 PM
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Both .270 & .308 have a very mild recoil.
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  #5  
Old 04-08-2009, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davers View Post
Both .270 & .308 have a very mild recoil.
...and .243 and .25-06 are a lot less.

.
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  #6  
Old 04-08-2009, 08:10 PM
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The 308 was designed to duplicate 30-06 performance in a smaller size. The only way to do this is to increase pressure. The industry maximum average pressure of the 30-06 is 50,000 CUP whereas the MAP of 308 Win is 52,000 CUP.

Having experience with all the cartridges you describe, it all comes down to rifle weight and load. I had a Rem .270 with a poorly designed stock and truck tire recoil pad that had sharp recoil. I have a 270 now that is like a dream to shoot, just a light nudge with max loads.

It is true that the recoil factor goes up if you increase either bullet weight or velocity with any cartridge. By velocity it is powder charge. Same if you decrease gun weight. Adding a softer, more absorbent recoil pad will lessen the perceived recoil, but the gun will move rearward as much as it always did.

If you are looking to only hunt deer, the 243 is all you ever need and it does kick noticeably less than the 270/308.

Figure a 243 round loaded with 100 grain bullet at 2800 feet per second= 1741 foot pounds of muzzle energy.

308 Win - 150 grain bullet at 2850 feet per second = 2706 foot pound of energy.

The 308 with the average deer load produces 64 percent more muzzle energy. Now imagine the same weight rifle and this would be the proportional recoil difference.

Keep in mind the 243 in a light weight rifle recoils around 11 pounds of force. Add 64 percent to this and you get 18 pounds of recoil force in the same rifle shooting this average 308 load. Most practiced shooters can easily handle either one.
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  #7  
Old 04-08-2009, 08:37 PM
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A .25/06 would be a good choice.
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  #8  
Old 04-09-2009, 01:46 AM
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The .308 win will do all that you need.
I can be loaded as low as 100 grainers for plinking and small game, and as heavy as you need for big game. The 150-175 grain area will do all you need for tatgets to distance, and 165 will kill anything.
The recoil of the .308 is manageable, and, as this is a short action, lightning fast to rechamber a round.
Don't know which type of action you were looking at, but the 308 is available in more than the others.

In a very broad nutshell, the 308 will give you 30-06 performance in a shorter case and action.
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  #9  
Old 04-09-2009, 04:46 AM
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Thanks for the responses everyone. For those not familiar with my previous posts (I know some of you are, as you responded to my previous ones) - I have a few things going on:

1) I have a bad right shoulder to begin with.
2) I have a .270 w/ factory stock (and that "truck tire" recoil pad mentioned by .300WinMag above - good analogy by the way!). It turns my shoulder into hamburger every time I go to the range. I'm shooting 130 grain PowerPoints through it.
3) I have a new Thumbhole stock for that .270 now - but it needs a recoil pad installed, and my gunsmith is backed up big-time right now. I don't want to screw up this nice new stock... so I'm waiting. It's not installed yet.
4) In the meantime (and just because I have an empty slot or two in the gunsafe ), I wanted to pick up another rifle that won't kill my shoulder. I wasn't going high end, but wanted a good rifle that will serve me well. I've been looking at .243, .25-06 and a few others in H&R Handi-Rifles (single shot crack barrel), Savage, Mossberg and Remington bolt actions, and a few others that are out of my price range (but I still like to look) - like some levers in other calibers.

I just saw that .308 comparison and started wondering. Guess I need to study the charts a lot more instead of just glancing at case sizes. . Sorry. Newbie mistake.

Thanks again everyone!
All the best,
Glenn
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  #10  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:56 AM
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hmmmm, well, from everything you've stated, I think I'd be inclined to try a .243....it's basically the .308 necked down, and will kick a lot less, and considerably less than your .270....lots of folks shoot them for Varmints, and there is varmint ammo available, as well as heavier bullet loadings designed for deer sized game.....take a look at the new Ruger Hawkeyes, they're very nice, and they come with scope rings, and the bases are machined into the recievers.....they have what they call the "Sporter" which is stainless, with laminated stock....purty, and the dense stock will soak up a bit of the recoil .... that would be my choice .....

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProd...Yes&type=Rifle
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  #11  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:57 AM
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Recoil of the 270/130 will be pretty similar to the .308/150, plus or minus a couple of foot pounds. The .243 will run about 2/3 that level of recoil. Here is a link to recoil calculations.
http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil-5.0.cgi
Bear in mind that "felt recoil" is affected my many factors such as stock design, recoil pads and such that are not taken into account in the calculations but it is a very good comparison if we are speaking of two rifles or shotguns of the same model but different calibers. Also realize that in actual use one will never notice a difference of plus or minus 10% of about anything, whether it's the amount of cereal in the box or the amount of kick in the butt.
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajuntec View Post
OK... I've been thinking that a .243 or .25-06 was the way to go. Today, I see a link posted with pictures of rounds side by side for comparison. It's here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges

I noticed that the .308 is much shorter than the .270 that I currently have, or the .30-06, and besides the actual bullet, the cases look to be close to size to the .243. The .25-06 on the other hand, looks like the same case length as my .270, and not much skinnier from the picture.

It's hard to determine from pictures, but now it has me thinking....

Would a .308 kick less or about the same as a .243 or .25-06, and more importantly - less than my .270???

All the best,
Glenn

Glenn,

Here's a link to a rifle recoil table:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:21 AM
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The .243 just makes sense. Can shoot as far as you want. Accurate. Very low recoil and good for hunting deer size game.
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:40 AM
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Loved my .243. Sorry I traded it and will probably get another. Not just for the recoil sensitive. Another advantage of the lower recoil and less powder is that you can productively practice more.
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  #15  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:46 AM
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A .308 kicks more than a .243, but the .308 is generally not considered hard to manage. Plus it's more versatile. You could conceivably hunt elk and decent size bear with a .308 but either would be ill advised with a .243. (It could be done, of course.)

You might also consider a 7mm-08--again more pop than a .243, but very versatile and moderate recoil.
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  #16  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:53 AM
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It depends on what you want to hunt or if you want to shoot "long range." If you are hunting deer then the .243 would be perfect and if you want to shoot long range only a couple rounds will out shoot the .243 at 500 yards and beyond.
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  #17  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:20 AM
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I own and shoot both the .308 and .243. Both are accurate and very effective on whitetail. The .308 is my personal favorite. Its short action makes it a dream to handle. A 150 grain bullet is bad news at any range. The recoil is very moderate ( I don't notice it at all in the field). Reloading components are plentiful and economical. Like another guy said,,, .308 gives you 30-06 performance with less recoil and much more economically. My 85 lb. 12-yr. old daughter just took a whitetail with my .308 Mauser this past season. It was loaded to shoot a 150 gr bullet at about 2850 fps. She did not complain about the recoil at all.

The .243 is also very effective on whitetail. My 3 daughters have taken more than a dozen deer of various sizes with it--all one-shot kills--every deer recovered within 80 yd or usually on the spot. I have loaded 100 gr as well as 80 gr bullets for the .243. Both of these bullet wts. kill whitetails very dead. The recoil of the .243 is very mild. All 3 of my girls started hunting with it at age 11. It's a wonderful round.

Unless you are headed after game larger than deer, I see no advantage of shooting long action cartridges (.270, 30-06, 25-06, etc.). These rounds are very effective, but much more expensive to load. Study the ballistics and compare these long actions to the short actions. Bullet wt for bullet wt, the short actions shoot almost as fast with considerably less powder. I don't know about you, but I'm in the powder-conservation mode these days.

Best wishes.
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  #18  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:13 PM
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Glenn,

look into a Past Recoil Shield. Its a recoil pad you wear. Should run you about $35 and they really work nicely. That way you can keep shooting and not turn your shoulder into hamburger. As for recoil of the .243? Not much at all. Less than my 30-06, Less than my .308. A little less than my 7x57 and about the same as my 6.5x55 swede.
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  #19  
Old 04-10-2009, 03:03 AM
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If you hand load don't forget the 7mm-08, 260 Remington, and the 6.5 x 55. All great Deer killers and softer on the shoulder than the 308. The recoil differences can be read on Chuck Hawks chart.

And no one brought up the 257 Roberts.

If you do not handload, the 243 ammo is easy to find and has brought home more Deer meat than many other high power rounds.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:28 AM
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Something else I just thot of is this ... the old 250 Savage is one whale of a nice cartridge, and it would make a wonderful deer (and smaller-Varmints) rifle .... with mild-moderate loads in a good bolt rifle, and the modern powders that are now available, you can now get a 100 grain bullet real close to 3000 fsnds ....and thats at about 44,000lbs pressure, so some more snort would be readily available I would think..... and about 1/2 the recoil of your .270 .... sure, nobody chambers for it anymore, but that never stopped a guy that wants one... get a .22-250 and drill er' out....

you could start with this :

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProd...17121&return=Y
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